Any issues with Winchester Primers?

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Northof50

Moderator
Hi all:

Just wondering if anyone has had issues with Winchester Large Pistol primers? I was getting some failure to fires in my 1911 and chalked it up to needing new springs. So, I did a detail cleaning and complete spring replacement. All springs were Wilson Combat - standard strength springs. Firing pin had no faults upon examination.

Took lunch at the range today and had 4 failures out of 50 rounds. Primers had good hits with heavy indents. A second strike fired the rounds.

Just checking to see if anyone else has had issues, or that perhaps my 1911 just doesn't like the Winchester primers.

Thanks all.
 
Northof50 wrote:
Primers had good hits with heavy indents. A second strike fired the rounds.
Click to expand...

According to my reloading records, as of today, I have used 6,232 Winchester primers with zero failures.

What you described is the classic symptom of the primer not having been fully seated. The first strike of the firing pin finishes seating the primer and the second strike ignites it.

Go back and review your reloading process and verify that the primers are being fully seated each time and that should resolve the issue.
 
I've never had a problem. Any maker can have a bad lot, and that's possibly what happened here. However, more normally the cause is the primers not being seated adequately deep, so you get a good firing pin mark but a lot of the firing pin energy has pushed the primer pellet and anvil loose and helped finish seating the primer.

Measure the depth of your primer pockets. Measure the height of your primers, including the anvil feet. Subtract the primer height from the pocket depth, and then subtract 0.003" from that result. You should wind up with a negative number that is how far below flush with the case head the properly seated primer should be.
 
I had some issues with their large rifle primers blowing out with hot loads. Went back to CCI's and the problem went away
 
I won't ask how many years you have been handloading. I won't ask what your preferred tools are. I won't ask how you approach primer seating and your level of concern that you "be careful when seating primers", even though all of that is relevant! What I will say is that defective primers are very very very rare. Very. And nearly all of the time... problems get traced to primers that are not fully seated. I have a suggestion that I make regularly and it goes like this:

Take your normal and usual method of operation and take a bath-sized towel folded over and place it completely over the case to be primed in such a way that it absolutely blocks any potential blast. And as always, have safety glasses on. (ALWAYS.) With this towel/shield in place, now use your normal and typical method of primer seating but use every bit of force that is possible without wrecking your tools.

The entire purpose of this exercise is to show you vividly that no matter what gorilla strength you use to seat a primer in it's proper fashion with the correct tools... no matter HOW hard you push, that little sucker simply isn't going to detonate. It's designed to detonate in a particular manner and primer seating is not that manner.

This exercise is to help handloaders (especially those newer to the game) to get beyond any fear in primer seating, and to make sure they seat those primers properly, using all the leverage and force available to them.

The (hoped!) net result of this exercise is to show you that you can seat primers 100% with no chance of detonation, and getting in to the routine of absolutely seating primers means that you won't have misfires possibly related to poorly seated primers.
 
Northof50: Thanks for the clear explanation. Notice there were no followup questions because you were so thorough.

My only experience with Winchester primers is of the small variety (WSP). I have a 38 Special M67 that is a pure fun gun. It has a mild trigger job and CCI's fail about 0.5% of the time (a second stab ignites them). So I switched to WSP (supposedly easier to ignite than CCI) and it solved the problem.

I'll go back and check the stop on the press.
Click to expand...

We've both been loading for a long time. I loaded my first round on 6/4/84. By 7/1/84 (probably sooner), I ditched the primer tool on the press and went to a Lee Auto-Prime. Have been using one - in its various incarnations over the decades - ever since. It's the only way I prime. I wanna "feel" the primer seat; and I give 'em a good mashin' down, I'm here to tell you. Other than my fun gun (modified/lightened hammer fall), I have never had a failure - including the 27 year old CCI's I found at my Dad's house some years back.

I'm not really sure how relevant my experience has been here. My point is that I am so sold on hand priming that I will not incorporate priming into my progressive loading process (looks like a mechanical nuisance anyway). Powder charging too - but that's another post.
 
Nick, Sevens,

Thanks. Yes. Loading for many years. I believe Unclenick nailed it. A few months back, I bent one of the primer plugs on my machine. RCBS sent me a replacement - no problem. But remember thinking I had the stop set too low, causing the bend. So, I set the stop to activate a bit sooner. It was shortly after that, I noticed the failure to fires. So, I'm going to set it a bit deeper and run all the cases through again and see what it's like.

Nick, I'm with you on the press -priming function. I just posted in a thread, if you're going to have an issue on a progressive press, it will most likely be in the primer delivery system somewhere.

Thanks all.
 
A question I would ask, since I see no mention in any posts......during the same time frame, did you use any other primers in the same gun and have any failures or perfect detonation? While I too suspect it is primer seating depth that is the issue here(primer igniting on second hit is a dead giveaway), without testing them against another known variable, it's really hard to define. How did your primers look in the pocket? Seated below flush?
 
4 FTF ? Statistically near impossible to be primer manufacturing process.
As has been said here before, check your seating depth and if you think you got it right ---check it again.
Suspect not seated to below flush and firing pin strike pushing it in but without enough force to detonate.

Operator error no doubt.
Not a criticism, just an observation
 
Winchester primers

Are you physically handling the primers?
Are your hands contacting the primers?
Are you placing each primer in the priming arm by hand?

Oils from your hand, fingers, etc., could contaminate the primer.

What type of primer seat are you using...flat or round?
Do you run your finger over the "seated" primer after seating the primers?

I believe your primer problem may lie in your primer handling procedures.
 
I have been loading for over 60 years. The only problems I can remember with primers is occasionally I would get one in upside down, or sidewise. Ya, these don't work very well. Please do seat the primers in all the way till they hit bottom.
 
I have had no trouble with WW primers.
However, there were some unhappy Cowboy shooters right after they quit plating the cups. The bare brass primers were not fully reliable in their SAs and levers.
I liked them, they were more sensitive, I could almost load them for my Python. Almost, but it still wants Federals.

I have a box of Remington 1 1/2 SPP that are a bit strange. Misfires and funny indents in some guns. I am limiting them to a gun that handles them.
 
I had problems seating Winchester large pistol primers last time I bought them. I won't buy them again. Fed., CCI, and Remington all seat as they should. If they fire the second time you're probably not seating them all the way to the bottom. I fought 3000 of them loading 45 ACP, never again.
 
I have used several thousands of WLP primers, all in 45 Colt. I have only had one that was a dud. With a few retries, I am convinced is was inert. I like them for standard pressure loads because they are not plated and thus distinct from all my other primers. I probably use more of them than all other pistol primers combined and will continue to do so. However, I also like and use substantial numbers of CCI and Federal primers.

I agree; second strikes firing the rounds is a strong indicator of primers not being seated deeply enough.
 
I have been using about 25,000 small pistol primers ( Winchester ) for the last 3 years or so, because they're readily available locally....and I have only had one Failure to Fire in 3 years...( it was seated properly, but did not ignite ...??....and that was from a lot I loaded about 3 months ago, finished the lot up( a case of 5,000 ), and I had no other issues ...).

I have been reloading for over 50 yrs...and I have been only using CCI or WIN primers in all of my handgun ammo ...( double action revolvers, single action revolvers, 1911's, Sig semi autos....)...

I had a lot of issues with Win 209 primers in shotshells about 5 yrs ago....and I quit using them. I was getting a failure rate of 3% or so...in 2 different cases....so I went to CCI in my shotshells as well ( 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 )....no problems in any of my Browning Over Unders after I made the change.
 
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