Any factory 38 special rounds out there that are heavier than 158 grains?
- Thread starter CCCLVII
- Start date
Blazer, somewhat to my surprise, apparently offers a 200 grain 38 special round:
http://ammoseek.com/ammo/38-special/-handgun-200grains-?ar=1
I don't know if that would work for you, but it is interesting!
http://ammoseek.com/ammo/38-special/-handgun-200grains-?ar=1
I don't know if that would work for you, but it is interesting!
I seriously doubt you will find a factory .357 load that is subsonic.
I don't know what's in current production, but up through the 70s (at least) there was a 200gr LRN "police" load .38 Special.
It kind of fell out of favor when testing showed it wouldn't reliably penetrate car windshields unless fired from a 6" barrel. 4" would penetrate sometimes, and 2" (detective specials) virtually never.
If you're looking to stay subsonic in a 12" barrel, I'd say you need to be handloading.
Good Luck.
I don't know what's in current production, but up through the 70s (at least) there was a 200gr LRN "police" load .38 Special.
It kind of fell out of favor when testing showed it wouldn't reliably penetrate car windshields unless fired from a 6" barrel. 4" would penetrate sometimes, and 2" (detective specials) virtually never.
If you're looking to stay subsonic in a 12" barrel, I'd say you need to be handloading.
Good Luck.
HighValleyRanch
New member
I see that they no longer stock this item.
IIRC years ago there was a 200 grain "Super Police" load available, and part of the reason the Brits adopted the No. 2 Mk i was they found the 200 grain bullet in 38 S&W was pretty close to the 455 in stopping power though they later had to adopt a 178 grain FMJ to comply with the Hague Convention.
Penn bullets lists a 230 gr.
I haven't used any though.
not factory, you'll have to load them.
https://www.pennbullets.com/38/38230tndrhd.html
Looks like same design as above, 230 wadcutter
I haven't used any though.
not factory, you'll have to load them.
https://www.pennbullets.com/38/38230tndrhd.html
Looks like same design as above, 230 wadcutter
The 200 grain bullet in 38 S&W was done to try and up the "power" of the S&W for budgetary reasons. The Brit spent very little money on non-naval stuff between the Wars.
There's jacketed 170 grain .38 Special and +P data on Hodgdon's site. All of 'em under 1,125 ft/s(Speed of sound at 68 °F and I think at sea level.), but out of a 7.7" barrel. Not likely subsonic out of a 12" barrel though. (Ballistics by the Inch only goes to 135 grains with .38 Special. 158's in .357. Only a 2 or 3 inch barrel is subsonic.)
I've seen 200 grain data some place in the last 24 to 48 hours too. It'd either be Reloader's Nest or Handloads.com.
Suspect those 230's are for a rifle.
There's jacketed 170 grain .38 Special and +P data on Hodgdon's site. All of 'em under 1,125 ft/s(Speed of sound at 68 °F and I think at sea level.), but out of a 7.7" barrel. Not likely subsonic out of a 12" barrel though. (Ballistics by the Inch only goes to 135 grains with .38 Special. 158's in .357. Only a 2 or 3 inch barrel is subsonic.)
I've seen 200 grain data some place in the last 24 to 48 hours too. It'd either be Reloader's Nest or Handloads.com.
Suspect those 230's are for a rifle.
I was surprised too, so I looked around. Nobody offers such a load and it's not listed on Blazer's website.
Blazer does offer a 200 grain 44 Special load, so I suspect the Cabela's listing that AmmoSeek found is a typo.
ShootistPRS
New member
I remember when there as just 4 types of ammo sold for the 38 special.
There was the 148 grain wadcutter; the 158 grain round nose; the 158 SWC; and the 200 grain police.
The 200 grain police load was a round nose 200 grain lead bullet at 850 fps listed velocity. This was the round that I believe killed the 38 for law enforcement. The actual velocity from a 4 inch revolver was 700 to 750 fps and if angled at a cars windshield would bounce rarely breaking the glass.
Even after the +P and +P+ loads were developed the police felt under gunned.
There was the 148 grain wadcutter; the 158 grain round nose; the 158 SWC; and the 200 grain police.
The 200 grain police load was a round nose 200 grain lead bullet at 850 fps listed velocity. This was the round that I believe killed the 38 for law enforcement. The actual velocity from a 4 inch revolver was 700 to 750 fps and if angled at a cars windshield would bounce rarely breaking the glass.
Even after the +P and +P+ loads were developed the police felt under gunned.
HighValleyRanch
New member
Going back further, there was the Remington 125 grain .38 specials.
This is an old box of them I still have.
My brother just got us a new Chrono, so when the weather clears and we get together at the range, will do some velocity tests of some of this vintage stuff, maybe!HEH
This is an old box of them I still have.
My brother just got us a new Chrono, so when the weather clears and we get together at the range, will do some velocity tests of some of this vintage stuff, maybe!HEH
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HighValleyRanch
New member
And an even lighter grain version of the .38 special. I don't think there are any current loads this light. These were made specially for short barrel revolvers!
I bet these are pretty rare! I wonder how fast these will be?
Wow, I see that Hornady Critical defense comes in a 90 grain round for light recoil SD tailored for women shooters.
I bet these are pretty rare! I wonder how fast these will be?
Wow, I see that Hornady Critical defense comes in a 90 grain round for light recoil SD tailored for women shooters.
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natman, in post #10:
You're probably right about that listing for the supposed 200 grain .38 special on Cabelas' website being in error. I did actually check Cabelas' website before I posted and found that listing. But if it is not on the Blazer website, in all probability Cabelas is incorrect.
The price shown is more appropriate for .44 than .38, too.
You're probably right about that listing for the supposed 200 grain .38 special on Cabelas' website being in error. I did actually check Cabelas' website before I posted and found that listing. But if it is not on the Blazer website, in all probability Cabelas is incorrect.
The price shown is more appropriate for .44 than .38, too.
Model12Win
Moderator
The 200 grain .38 "super police" loads had an excellent reputation for stopping power against unarmored threats but had a very low penetration rating against auto glass or side panels.
As noted by others, if you want to realize the full potential of your setup you will want to get into reloading.
I've got a 6" Contender barrel that I shoot suppressed, as well as a couple of 14" barrels. I've loaded 180 gr XTPs in .38 Spl brass out to .357 Mag length (.357 Special?). So far I've only played with a couple of loads, and haven't gotten over 800 fps or so. Need to finish working up those loads.
But they sound great suppressed, and should do a pretty decent job.
I like the looks of those 230 gr loads too. I don't shoot much bare lead through my cans, but I might make an exception for those.
I've got a 6" Contender barrel that I shoot suppressed, as well as a couple of 14" barrels. I've loaded 180 gr XTPs in .38 Spl brass out to .357 Mag length (.357 Special?). So far I've only played with a couple of loads, and haven't gotten over 800 fps or so. Need to finish working up those loads.
But they sound great suppressed, and should do a pretty decent job.
I like the looks of those 230 gr loads too. I don't shoot much bare lead through my cans, but I might make an exception for those.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
If the Super Police 38 spl had an 200 grain bullet and assuming those had a velocity of about 700 to 750 fps then you get an energy of well over 200 ft/lbs and up to 250 ft/lbs.
That should be an normal 38 spl load.
But maybe the slow velocity was to slow for breaking glass in an angle.
But I would seriously doubt an 250 ft/lbs bullet will not break the glass as I have broken my window with an ricochet bullet which had about 200 ft/lbs of energy.
There may be an velocity threshold for penetrating glass.
Some Claim as well the modern 45 acp round will not allways penetrate glass.
That should be an normal 38 spl load.
But maybe the slow velocity was to slow for breaking glass in an angle.
But I would seriously doubt an 250 ft/lbs bullet will not break the glass as I have broken my window with an ricochet bullet which had about 200 ft/lbs of energy.
There may be an velocity threshold for penetrating glass.
Some Claim as well the modern 45 acp round will not allways penetrate glass.
.38SPL enthusiast
New member
I wish Winchester still made those cartridges. From what I've been able to find, they were last catalogued in 1989. However, it's really easy to duplicate this loading and I've loaded and shot thousands of them with the cast bullet version and small charges of powder. They aren't very loud out of a revolver anyway, so suppressed should be really subtle. They get the work done via sheer mass. Out of a revolver they yaw making a really big hole, but I'm not sure if they would retain this property out of a long barrel.