Any experts re California law here?

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FoghornLeghorn

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This is a broad issue, but the short of it is that my son lives in California. I live in Oklahoma.

I want to give him a 1977 Colt Python, blued, six inch barrel.

May I do so via the following?

My FFL ships the gun to his FFL. In the package is the gun and some document re familial transfer.

He can go to the FFL and has to register the gun, have the safety certificate that entitles him to own a handgun, then take delivery of the gun without the 10 day waiting period.

The gun is not on the CA roster.

Assuming the above is accurate, i.e., the answer is yes, can I ship two handguns and he not be limited to the 1 gun a month nonsense? The second gun is a 1976 Colt Mark 4/Series 70. Also not on the roster.

I understand there are exceptions re familial interstate transfers of handguns from father to son.

Any help is appreciated.
 
"I understand there are exceptions re familial interstate transfers of handguns from father to son." Really?
This is a critical evolution you intend and there are severe penalties for error. I think you need advice from someone who is accountable in ways that the assorted denizens of this discussion forum are not.
The relative merits of the 270 and 30/06 is more our meat, not to mention 9mm versus 45.
 
Here's what I've gleaned from an exclusively California gun forum. In response to the same question, worded differently.

Legally you can ship the firearms yourself to his local FFL in Modesto. But many FFLs have a policy of only accepting shipments from other FFLs. So have your son ask around locally (or on Calguns) to find an FFL with the cheapest transfer price who will accept the shipment directly from you.
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Also,

Be sure to check with the CA ffl to make sure they understand that ALL Interfamilial transfers are roster exempt. Not all do. You will also need to put a note in that says: I Dad am giving these fine firearms model XXX serial number XXX to my Son.
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=879398

I will likely be calling the CA DOJ in the next couple of days. I just want to have some information so that I know better what questions to ask.
 
  1. Federal law.

    • Transfer of a handgun from a resident of one State to a resident of another must go through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence.

    • It is legal for an individual to ship a handgun to an FFL for transfer.

      • Some FFLs will not accept a gun for transfer from an individual. They have their own business reasons for doing so, and that is their prerogative.

      • In any case, once a transfer FFL is identified one should work out the shipping details with him (e. g., how he'd like it shipped, what documentation he wants included, etc.), preferably in writing.

  2. California law

    • Private party transfers must go through an FFL in California, but they are exempt from the "one-handgun-a-month" law.

    • intrafamilial transfers (child/grandchild to or from parent/grandparent) of a handgun are exempt from the California Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.

      • Not all California FFLs are aware of this. The transferee will need to find an FFL who is familiar with this rule.

      • The transferor should include with the gun shipped to the FFL for transfer a letter setting out the details, i. e., identifying the gun, name and contact information of the transferee, name and contact information of the transferor, the relationship of the transferee to the transferor (establishing that the intrafamilial rules apply) and that it's a gift (if that's the case).
 
Well, I just got off the phone with the FFL dealer's store in my son's town. He says I cannot ship the guns, but that my son can come to my state and take the guns back and simply say they belong to him.

One big problem with that is that I used to live in California and these guns were already registed in my name. And there's no way my son can pass for 62 years old.
 
FoghornLeghorn said:
Well, I just got off the phone with the FFL dealer's store in my son's town. He says I cannot ship the guns, but that my son can come to my state and take the guns back and simply say they belong to him.

....
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What a fine example of why you should not rely on an FFL for legal advice. If you and your son were to handle things that way you'd each become eligible for up to five years in federal prison (not to mention the lifetime loss of gun rights).

I'll provide detail and citations to the federal law later.
 
Foghorn Leghorn said:
Well, I just got off the phone with the FFL dealer's store in my son's town. He says I cannot ship the guns, but that my son can come to my state and take the guns back and simply say they belong to him.

One big problem with that is that I used to live in California and these guns were already registed in my name. And there's no way my son can pass for 62 years old.
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A second big problem with what the FFL suggested is that it would be a federal felony for both you and your son.

The title of your post asks for California law experts. Frank Ettin, who gave you a detailed answer, is an experienced CALIFORNIA attorney who teaches classes on firearms law with nationally-known trainers. I think I would trust his advice before I would trust some FFL who wants me AND my son to commit a felony because he doesn't want to do the paperwork.
 
Dexter1 said:
Ship them to tracy rifle and pistol and write a letter stating you are his father and that you are gifting the pistols
To your son. Even off roster does not matter they will transfer it directly down the tree as a gift (father son, mother daughter etc)
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My response: I just got off the phone with one of their staff. He said I could ship the 45 ACP and transfer it to my son because a) the law would allow it and b) it complies with the "single shot exemption" whatever. The single shot thing is that if the gun is off roster, they remove the barrel, he walks out of the store with the gun, he comes back into the store and retrieves the barrrel.

The agent said the Python cannot be transferred because the barrel cannot be removed.

He said the "single shot exemption" rule applies to all off roster guns shipped into the state, and that their store is only one of seven that do it.
Can this issue get any more convoluted?
 
So, is there a reason you didn't like the answers you got at Calguns (from 2 of the same people, including me)?
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No, I understood your answer to be correct. But there is no FFL in his area that will do such a transfer.

Also, read my preceding post.

Sidenote, since there is such a wide variety of opinions, I like to consult as many sources as possible. No offense.
 
Frank Ettin, who gave you a detailed answer, is an experienced CALIFORNIA attorney
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Yes, but the problem is that I cannot find a FFL who knows CA firearms law re this topic. They won't take/receive/transfer the guns.

Now there's this whole "single shot execption" thing? I've never heard of it.

But somebody on calguns said call this gun store in Tracy. And my post (above this one) is what he told me.
 
There is a single shot exemption, but it involves paying a gunsmith to convert the firearm to a single shot firearm -- meaning a firearm that can fire only one shot before having to be manually reloaded. If the firearm were a 1911, simply removing the barrel would NOT "convert" it to a single shot firearm, it would simply leave you with a box of parts. This FFL does not appear to have any grasp whatsoever of what the laws in California really say (or mean).

He is correct that it would be difficult to convert a Python to a single shot firearm so that isn't a viable option ... but removing the barrel from a revolver wouldn't make it a single shot anyway, so on that score he's right for the wrong reason.

Have your son widen his search radius and find another FFL.
 
FoghornLeghorn said:
...But somebody on calguns said call this gun store in Tracy. And my post (above this one) is what he told me...
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I think you need to speak with the owner. I recall meeting him once a while ago, and he seemed pretty squared away. His employee might be a different matter.

You might need to wait until next week if the owner is out-of-town at the SHOT Show.
 
I think you need to speak with the owner. I recall meeting him once a while ago, and he seemed pretty squared away. His employee might be a different matter.
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Thanks Frank.

Does this mean I can give the Python to my via a familial transfer without having to go through the SSE thing?

I will take your advice and call to speak to the owner. He indeed might be at the show. My primary FFL contact in CA (Ripon) is there for two weeks.

Meanwhile, my son found a FFL in Turlock who agreed to do the transfer.

Assuming a gift of a revolver from father to son is exempt from both the SSE laws and the "roster", what about the waiting period per gun? Can he receive both simultaneously?

Thanks again.
 
Foghorn Leghorn said:
So you're saying that I cannot "gift" the Python to my son?
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Not at all. Where in this discussion did anyone say that?

Go back and re-read post number 5, section 2.b.ii. Frank spells out exactly what California law requires/allows.
 
Exemptions to the one-handgun-per-30-days requirement
include pawn returns, intra-familial transfers and private party transfers. (Pen.
Code, § 27540.)
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Straight from the California Firearms Laws Summary, 2013.
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Urgh.

That does apply for in-state intrafamily transfer.

But interstate requires a CA FFL, and CA FFL requires DROS, and the exceptions to 1-in-30 through DROS do not include intrafamilial transfer. I suspect that was omitted because, like many parts of CA law, Federal law was not considered, and the possibility that an intrafamily transfer would have been forced through an FFL just never was anticipated.

In short, California's 1-in-30 limit on handgun transfers DOES apply to interstate intrafamilial transfer.
 
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