Antique Colt .22 rifle
- Thread starter Classic12
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
How nice. We don't see many of those, not many made, an expensive .22 for the day, and apparently low survival rate. Is it .22 Short or Long? The .22 Stevens Long, Rifle only came out the year before, unlikely to be a .22 LR.
Geezerbiker
New member
Interesting. Any chance that would be a John Browning design?
Tony
Tony
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Any chance that would be a John Browning design?"
No. Had it been a Browning design it would have been MUCH better than it was.
No. Had it been a Browning design it would have been MUCH better than it was.
Jim Watson
New member
In those days Winchester was snapping up every design Mr Browning came up with, either to produce or to keep other companies from getting them.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Is it .22 Short or Long? The .22 Stevens Long, Rifle only came out the year before, unlikely to be a .22 LR. "
I've not been able to find any indication that Colt made any chambered for Long Rifle.
I've not been able to find any indication that Colt made any chambered for Long Rifle.
Jim Watson
New member
Flayderman says they made 89912 of them.
Colt Collectors site says
"The small frame Colt Lightning Magazine Rifles were produced from 1887 to 1904. They were chambered for 22 Caliber and accepted long, short, or a combination of long and short cartridges."
Colt Collectors site says
"The small frame Colt Lightning Magazine Rifles were produced from 1887 to 1904. They were chambered for 22 Caliber and accepted long, short, or a combination of long and short cartridges."
stinkeypete
New member
Beautiful.
Geezerbiker
New member
I figured there was a chance since he worked for Colt on the M1911 around that time...
Anyway it's one I don't have to think about getting since I mostly collect JMB designed guns...
Tony
Jim Watson
New member
The Lightning rifle came out in 1884. It was designed by Dr W.H. Eliot who turned from dentistry to firearms design.
I figure Mr Browning was working on the 1886 lever action if he had not already finished it and moved on to the 1887 shotgun or 1892 rifle.
First Browning automatic pistol designs were around 1898.
I figure Mr Browning was working on the 1886 lever action if he had not already finished it and moved on to the 1887 shotgun or 1892 rifle.
First Browning automatic pistol designs were around 1898.
Mike Irwin
Staff
When Browning started developing semi-auto handguns he wasn't working with Colt, he worked with FN, and that relationship was primarily for smaller handguns chambered in .32 and .380 ACP.
He apparently started working with Colt on larger handguns chambered in more powerful rounds (the first being the .38 ACP) apparently because FN wasn't interested in the larger designs that would eventually morph into the M1911.
He apparently started working with Colt on larger handguns chambered in more powerful rounds (the first being the .38 ACP) apparently because FN wasn't interested in the larger designs that would eventually morph into the M1911.
Jim Watson
New member
First FN Browning was the 1899 .32, revised only a little to become the long running 1900.
First Colt Browning was the 1900 .38.
It would take a comparison of patent dates to tell what he was working on when, but there seems a lot of overlap between jobs for his customers.
The 1903 hammerless was made in large size 9mm Browning Long by FN and Husqvarna and in small size .32 by Colt.
The Colt got the .380 in 1908. I don't know if it was an original chambering for the FN 1910.
I doubt Mr Browning had any input into the FN 1922, it looks like a kluge to make the 1910 design a military weapon.
First Colt Browning was the 1900 .38.
It would take a comparison of patent dates to tell what he was working on when, but there seems a lot of overlap between jobs for his customers.
The 1903 hammerless was made in large size 9mm Browning Long by FN and Husqvarna and in small size .32 by Colt.
The Colt got the .380 in 1908. I don't know if it was an original chambering for the FN 1910.
I doubt Mr Browning had any input into the FN 1922, it looks like a kluge to make the 1910 design a military weapon.
Geezerbiker
New member
I wasn't aware of when the Colt .22 rifle was made. All good info and JMB and his work are always interesting subjects...
The list of JMB designed guns is I want is way longer than the reach of my finances but one can dream...
Tony
The list of JMB designed guns is I want is way longer than the reach of my finances but one can dream...
Tony
Mike Irwin
Staff
"First FN Browning was the 1899 .32, revised only a little to become the long running 1900.
First Colt Browning was the 1900 .38."
Browning started working with FN in 1895 or 1896. As far as I can tell, he didn't start working with Colt until 1898.
FN originally wasn't interested in the larger, more powerful Browning designs, but did come around.
Around the same time Colt and FN entered into an agreement whereby Colt would make Browning designs for sale in North and South America, and FN would sell the same guns under their mark in Europe and Africa.
Browning ended up selling the same designs to both companies under the agreement.
And, it wasn't just pistols, either. Shotguns and rifles, as well. A few years ago I saw a Remington Model 8 in .35 Remington at a gunshow.
Only it had been manufactured by FN and was stamped 9mm...
First Colt Browning was the 1900 .38."
Browning started working with FN in 1895 or 1896. As far as I can tell, he didn't start working with Colt until 1898.
FN originally wasn't interested in the larger, more powerful Browning designs, but did come around.
Around the same time Colt and FN entered into an agreement whereby Colt would make Browning designs for sale in North and South America, and FN would sell the same guns under their mark in Europe and Africa.
Browning ended up selling the same designs to both companies under the agreement.
And, it wasn't just pistols, either. Shotguns and rifles, as well. A few years ago I saw a Remington Model 8 in .35 Remington at a gunshow.
Only it had been manufactured by FN and was stamped 9mm...
Jim Watson
New member
"FN originally wasn't interested in the larger, more powerful Browning designs, but did come around."
Yeah, when they thought they had a lucrative order from France in the works.
Took them several years and extensive redesign by Msr Saive before they were able to sell anything.
Well, there was the Grand Browning, but that was a flop.
Yeah, when they thought they had a lucrative order from France in the works.
Took them several years and extensive redesign by Msr Saive before they were able to sell anything.
Well, there was the Grand Browning, but that was a flop.
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Geezerbiker
New member
This is the first I've heard about a "Grand Browning." So I looked it up and watched the Forgotten Weapons video on it on U-Tube. I'm not sure if I'm sorry it wasn't made or not... It's just a skinny M1911 in a weird caliber...
Tony
Tony