anti-black bear

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doctor_brevic

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Hello, I live in a mountainous region of the us where black bear encounters are somewhat common. I was wondering what you guys thought to be the best firearm, caliber, platform in case one of these encounters goes awry. I currently believe in my REM 870 express 18" 6+1 no choke with 3" 00 buck. What do you think?
 
The strangest part of your post is saying black bear encounters are common. We have bears where I live but they are rarely seen. Black bears are shy and elusive critters who prefer to avoid people.
But, your 870 with #3 should be an adequate discouragement.
 
Marlin guide gun , 45-70 .
Rifleman is right .They spend almost all of their time looking for food .Try not to look like a ham sammich ,keep food away from your camp and you'll be OK. Lots of noise such as a loud whistle [Storm brand] ,compressed air horn etc, will usually deter them .
They often disappear before you see them ,or ignore you. Don't be paranoid.
More danger to you in the woods would be feral people or dogs or animals with rabies !
 
I have heard bad results using buckshot against hard skull bones. An experenced big game hunter bounced 2 loads of 00 buck off the skull of a 100# leapord. While I believe it would be a fine killing round I have my doubts it would be a stopping round. You must remember that there are 9 soft round balls of 33 caliber traveling at 1200 fps. Round balls have poor penatration compared to elongated projectiles. The ballistics of each ball would compare to the 32 S&W Long cartridge. I dont know anyone who would consider the 32 S&W Long to be a stopping cartridge even if 9 shots were sent down range. Just a few points to ponder.
 
Of course that's a fine load. Hell, you don't need the 3" for Blacks IMO. But, if you are using 3" anyway... There are buffered PLATED loads. Given the choice I would definitely use plated for any bear.



For Blacks I would use either 2-3/4" or 3" 00 Buck.


FEDERAL CARTRIDGE CO VITAL SHOK BUCKSHOT LOADS
Federal Premium 12 Ga. 2 3/4 9 Pel. #00 Copper Plated Lead Buckshot

Patented spiral stacking process with plastic shot cup and buffering ensures dense patterns and a staggering blow. Federal Premium buckshot features copper plated shot that penetrates deep for hits.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: P154
Category: AMMO SHOTSHELLS
Gauge :12 GA
Type :Lead
Length :2 3/4
Ounces :9 Pellets
Shot Size :00 Buck
Muzzle Velocity :1325 fps
Rounds/box :5 Rounds Per Box, 50 Boxes Per Case
Drams :N/A

UPC: 029465001292



Browns? 3" 000. Yes, that's what I said!

FEDERAL CARTRIDGE CO VITAL SHOK BUCKSHOT LOADS
Federal Premium 12 Ga. 3 Magnum 10 Pel. #000 Copper Plated Lead Buckshot

Patented spiral stacking process with plastic shot cup and buffering ensures dense patterns and a staggering blow. Federal Premium buckshot features copper plated shot that penetrates deep for hits.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: P158
Category: AMMO SHOTSHELLS
Gauge :12 GA
Type :Lead
Length :3
Ounces :10 Pellets
Shot Size :000 Buck
Muzzle Velocity :1225 fps
Rounds/box :5 Rounds Per Box, 50 Boxes Per Case
Drams :N/A

UPC: 029465001223



Well, if I had a 3-1/2" Mag gun I might choose those below if ya can find 'em. Slugs are preferred by many but the improved hit probability and multiple hits of HARD buckshot cannot be discounted. I know the 3" 000 are friggin' crushing.

Product Details & Specifications
FEDERAL CARTRIDGE CO VITAL SHOK BUCKSHOT LOADS
Federal Premium 12 Ga. 3 1/2 18 Pel. #00 Copper Plated Lead Buckshot

Patented spiral stacking process with plastic shot cup and buffering ensures dense patterns and a staggering blow. Federal Premium buckshot features copper plated shot that penetrates deep for hits.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: P135
Category: AMMO SHOTSHELLS
Gauge :12 GA
Type :Lead
Length :3 1/2
Ounces :18 Pellets
Shot Size :00 Buck
Muzzle Velocity :1100 fps
Rounds/box :5 Rounds Per Box, 40 Boxes Per Case
Drams :N/A

UPC: 029465016623
 
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Two nights ago around 10.30 I was walking the dog, she growled, I turned and a fairly large one was about 50 feet away, on the sidewalk under a lamp.
I went back inside.
Tore the dumpster apart, like usual.
Adidas.

Last year one ate the Doritos outta my truck.
 
While that will certainly do the trick maybe you need something a little more portable that is easier to carry around while you are working outside. I would recommend something along the line of a single action Ruger in 44 Magnum or something similar. You can have the handgun on you while outside and not scare legitimate visitors. Most black bears I have seen tried to stay away from people as much as possible unless it is a mother with cubs. If so then watch out as she will do what she feels necessary to protect her cubs.
 
Bears around here, that grew up around people, are something different than wild bears. They walk the same routes night after night, push in thru screen windows, smoke cigarettes. They really lose some kind of inhibitions over time.
I don't trust them, out in the woods you know the story...but watching one munch azaleas while a Doberman barks like a banshee, in broad daylight, inside of 20 feet....will change any opinion of them being elusive, or secretive.
They are curious, bold bordering on fearless, and too big to fool with.

PICT1354.jpg

PICT1344.jpg
 
Man, Alloy; I think I'd rather face ghetto crackheads on the regular than what you got lurking around...

Those tracks are from a black bear? Any attacks on humans around there?
 
Not that I know of, but one was inside my neighbor's place once when they returned from dinner. Climbed up about 5 feet onto a balcony, and pushed thru a sliding screen door.
They get inside dumpsters almost nightly if they can get the bear latch open.
Mainly I see the same one I think, last year or maybe the year before she had 3 cubs that would wander around the parking lot.
They have been in/on the back of my truck a half dozen times. These things are something else, one day one is going to jump out of that dumpster.

Size 11 for rough scale. It's no grizzly but for a black bear, it's a wall hanger.
PICT1356.jpg
 
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Buck shot of any size is unreliable. Use a slug. Mind you, a slug will not stop Yogi in his tracks either. And if he's under 100 yards away, you'll never be fast enough. He can cover 100 yards in under 6 seconds. 20 meters, never mind feet, in less than 2 seconds.
"...lose some kind of inhibitions..." They lose their fear of people. Yogi has no inhibitions.
 
They lose their fear of people.
Click to expand...

Do you think they grow up without ever having that fear if the mother acts that way? Because these really don't act normal.
We hunt bears...these are almost something else, compared to behavior I see in the woods. Like I mentioned...I don't trust them.
 
Buck shot is for bucks. If you want to shoot a bear, better to have solid hard cast of your choice that can penetrate the hide, bones and get through thick muscle.
 
"...these really don't act normal..." What's 'normal' for a bear? Yogi has no natural predators other than people. He does nothing that doesn't involve instinct or learned from experience behaviour. He really isn't interested in you. Like Pepe le Pew, if you leave him alone, he'll leave you alone.
"...I don't trust them..." To do what? Be a wild animal?
Cindy doesn't teach her cubs to do anything but how and where to eat either. Dumps and dumpsters have food.
"...Buck shot is for bucks..." Buck shot is for fire fights in a phone booth and occasionally for jungle fighting. It's not reliable for bucks either.
 
I have the same problem living in Colorado, up by the mountains. I carry a .45ACP Kahr PM45 or Sig P220 on me at all times, and break out the .44MAG Ruger Redhawk when I go places where I've had problems.

They always seem to come up on you though when you don't expect it (sleeping in your bivvy sack), or when taking a shot isn't practical (in the middle of a crowded campground). So far I've had three within 10ft, one of which was hostile, and haven't shot any of them. Hopefully you'll have better luck!

- Chris

Edit: Forgot to mention it, but I usually carry FMJ rounds, as I hope the extra penetration will help me if I need to kill one.
 
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This needs repeating DO NOT USE BUCKSHOT. Any size or load does not give anywhere near the needed penetration on a bear. Many places have outlawed its use against even 75 lb deer because it does not kill quickly enough. Buckshot is a fine choice for SD against humans, but anyone who would suggest it for bears simply does not know what they are talking about. At best you may deter the animal, but either way you are putting someone else in danger. You, or someone is now going to have to go into the bears backyard and track down a hurt, angry bear and finish him with a proper gun.

The gun you have with slugs is fine. Any shooting will be at very close range anyway. Most any hunting rifle .30 or larger would work as well. A good leveraction in 30-30, 44 mag, or 35 is probably as good as it gets. If I had a 45-70 or 444 I'd use it, but you don't have to have that much power and wouldn't suggest going out and buy one just for this purpose. 30-30's are everywhere and cheap. They have been killing black bear quite reliably for 106 years.

A proper handgun is an option. A 357 mag or 10mm with good loads is the minimum. Both 357 and 10mm have loads pushing 200gr hardcast bullets at 1300 fps. If I were using handgun I'd feel OK with either of these. Nothing wrong with 44 mag either, if you can shoot one well. I thing the really big 460 and 500 handguns are better suited for hunting and are a bit much for this. At the close ranges you would be shooting you don't need the extra power of these rounds.
 
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