Anschutz MPR-64

G

geetarman

New member
I am having an ongoing issue with this rifle concerning accuracy.

Lapua Standard and Center X all deliver good groups. . .as good as the factory test target. . .dime size or better. However Lapua Midas and Eley Tenex just don't shoot worth a hoot.

What is weird is that my other two bolt guns ( CZ452 and Ruger M7722 ) just shoot everything I put in there. To be clear, the CZ has been bedded and a trigger job and the Ruger has been bedded along with a pillar block as well as a trigger job.

Neither of these rifles have anything special. They are both slim barrels where the Annie is a monster. The CZ and the Ruger will shoot with the Annie at 50 yards with a variety of ammunition. The Annie is picky.

I have read that .22s are that way but seriously, a 1.5 inch group at 50 yards with Lapua Midas makes no sense. The Annie trigger is amazing and the other two rifles don't come close. I am tempted to sell this rifle and buy a CZ 455 heavy barrel.

Anyone have tips? Should I perhaps consider a different barrel? Or just suck it up and say my rifle just is "picky?"
 
Make sure the Anschutz barrel is totally free floated; doesn't touch anything but the receiver. Also check the stock screws, they should be torqued to about 20 to 25 inch pounds and the receiver in good contact with the stock around it except for hardware cutouts for clearance.

Anschutz barrels are known to prefer a given muzzle velocity. Which is why Eley match ammo is often marketed by muzzle velocity numbers; pick the one your barrel shoots best with.
 
Bart,

I have the action screws torqued to 25 in. lbs. The German spec is 44 in. lbs and when I tried that, I half expected the screw to break. I backed off and retorqued.

The Midas, Center X and Standard all who a 1083 muzzle velocity. The only thing I see different about the rounds is the lube on the Midas is dry as opposed to the greasy feeling on the other two. I suspect that may be one reason the rounds print differently. I am going to clean the barrel and start with the Midas this week and then finish with the greasy ones and see if the Midas groups differently with a clean barrel.

I know there will be differences but the differences I am seeing are differences I do NOT see on the Ruger and the CZ. Those two rifles put everything I put through them in believable groups. The Annie is just out of the ball park with Midas.

Thanks for the tip.
 
I'm confused, you have a rifle that shoots Lapua Standard and Eley Center X better than the more expensive Lapua Midas and Eley Tenex, and you think this is a problem?

I'd buy as much as I could of a lot of Lapua Standard or Center X and call it good.

However, if a match rifle is opening up with quality ammo, it is generally a sign that the bedding needs to be redone. The wood stock on Anschutz rifles is very good, but over time swelling/compressing, moisture/solvents can cause bedding issues.

Hope this is helpful,
Jimro
 
I found that pillar-bedding has helped many pretty good rifles into tack drivers. Still, if a barrel isn't good, there's little you can do about it.

I would slug the bore, starting at the breech. If there's a tight spot other than at the muzzle, say an inch or two from it, consider cutting the barrel at that point and having it re-crowned.

When you chamber a round by hand, does the cartridge stop before fully chambering? If not, the chamber may be a bit too long for the best accuracy out of the high-priced ammo. The rear end of the barrel can be cut back until a round sticks out when tried by hand. Then, cut new extractor notches, clean the barrel/receiver surfaces and glue it in, using Loctite Stud and Bearing Mount, with minimal headspacing.

The other trick that helps is to check the firing pin shape. The pin shouldn't hit the rounded part of the rim, but just below. The bottom part of the pin should be slightly longer than the top, so it spreads the flame. Edges shouldn't be sharp enough to cut the brass, but slightly rounded. Protrusion should be just shy of hitting the barrel with an empty chamber.

Hope this helps. I feel badly when someone gives up on a good rifle before it's best performance is achieved.
 
I'm confused, you have a rifle that shoots Lapua Standard and Eley Center X better than the more expensive Lapua Midas and Eley Tenex, and you think this is a problem?

I'd buy as much as I could of a lot of Lapua Standard or Center X and call it good.
Click to expand...

I have bought a lot of Standard and Center X. It just bugs me that this rifle shoots Midas and Tenex so much worse. That is what I am trying to figure out.

I have a guy that does pretty good work and I am going to ask him to take a look at the bedding. He did the work on the other two rifles and he knows what he is doing.
 
Before spending a lot of money on bedding, you should try various stock screw torque settings. Since some ammo is shooting well, barrel harmonics are apparently good with those characteristics.

Barrel weights, as simple as lead flashing wrapped around the barrel, to expensive tuners, can make a difference, but I'd first try different stock screw settings.

Best accuracy is often achieved when groups are just shy of the high point of grouping, because the barrel is nearly stopped in the vertical and allows for greatest fluctuation in bullet velocity. The low point in vibration may also shoot well, but the middle of the vibration cycle is when the muzzle is moving at maximum velocity, so small variations in bullet velocity make the greatest vertical group dispersion.

I suggest you set the front screw at 30 in/lbs., and the rear at 20, then adjust the rear in 5 in/lb. increments until you get as high, round groups as possible, then as group size increases with additional torque, reduce the torque by smaller increments until you find the sweet spot. Document that setting, if groups are adequately small.

If you don't achieve the group size you're happy with, pillar/action bedding may be necessary.
 
People have put accelerometers on muzzles to measure their whip cycle along with sensors to time the bullet's exit. They learned the best place for bullets to exit is on the upswing before it reaches the top. Slower bullets leave later at a higher angle; opposite for faster ones. That compensates for bullet drop.

If bullets leave centered about either extreme (top or bottom of the vertical whip cycle), half will leave at the wrong angle.

The Brits proved this over a hundred years ago with their SMLE's shooting cordite charged .303 ammo.
 
I cleaned the barrel and went back to the range yesterday.

I shot 5 fouling shots with the Midas and then shot 5 for group. Major fail.
The Midas and the Tenex as well look very dry. Neither has the oily feel of the other Lapua ammunitions. I followed the Midas with Tenex and this time the Tenex grouped better, but no cigar. Maybe half dollar size group whereas the Midas was silver dollar size or bigger. I had a new lot of Lapua that I had not seen before. Lapua Rifle Match. All the ammunition listed was a 40 gr. bullet at 1080 fps.

The Lapua Rifle Match, Center-X, Lapua Std and Wolf match just performed fine.

I had two factory test groups with the Lapua Center X but for one called flyer with the Lapua Standard.

Surprisingly, the Lapua Rifle Match turned in the same size groups as the other Lapua ammunitions. I went back to Accuracy Speaks and bought all they had from the same lot ( 2000 rds ).

I had thought the dry lube on the Midas and Tenex might be a cause for concern, but it seems that is not the case.

I am taking the Ruger M77-22 out tomorrow and will shoot some of everything through it except Tenex. I am out of that.

I will try the Standard, Center X, Rifle Match and Wolf Match Target and see how they do. The Ruger does not have the trigger the Annie does but it is free floated, glass and pillar bedded and it really does shoot pretty good.

I am afraid where this journey is taking me. It just does not seem to follow the CZ452 and the Ruger shoot so many different ammunitions very well and the Annie is picky.

The Annie is a hefty piece of goods and I would have thought it would shoot the lights out of the other two. That is not the case.

It was windy yesterday and I only shot at 50 yards. All three will shoot dime size or better 5 shot groups with the right ammo for the Annie and any ammo ( apparently ) with the other two.

I have a Leupold 8.5-25 VXIII on the Annie and that is plenty of scope for 100 yards. I have Nikon P223 2-7 on the other two and in order to really compare groups at 100 yards, they need better glass. I have a NF 8-32X56 that I am not using that I could take off a rifle I have and do some work with the CZ and Ruger. I have picatinny rails on all three rifles and other than bore sighting and taking a couple of sighters, I could use that scope on those two rifles and see how they do.

I have also thought about the torque of the action screws. I tried to follow the Anschutz manual that specifies 45 in. lbs and I thought that was MUCH too tight. I have them both about 30 in. lbs.

I have also talked to Neil Stepp at I-S-S in Texas and he seems to know a LOT about Anschutz rifles. He suggested that I forget about a torque wrench and switch the action screws over to Allen type screws and just "snug" them "firmly."

That seems kind of open-ended to me. I measured "stuff" for over 40 years in aerospace and I prefer to have a "value" applied to torque and to snug firmly does not quite cut it. I got Neil's name from Killough Shooting Supplies in Texas, which is where I bought the rifle.

Those folks sell and shoot a lot of Anschutz rifles, so I am not going to dis-regard their information too quickly.

This is all part of the fun. . .anyway, it is fun for me.

FYI, this is what the ammo has been costing me. Fortunately, it is pretty easy to find. The days of cheap .22 ammo, seem to be long gone.

The Lapua Center X has been costing me $100/brick
The Lapua Standard has been costing me $75/brick
The Lapua Rifle Match has been costing me $90/brick
The Lapua Midas has been costing me $110/brick
The Wolf Match Target has been costing me $110/brick
The Tenex that I had was given to me.

The Wolf has gone up. The first time I bought it, seems like it was around $90/brick.
 
The Annie barrel may be shot out. They don't last forever.

Clean it very good, then look at the chamber throat. If it's a dark ring all the way around, it's gone past it's accurate life. That ended when it started at 6 o'clock then worked up on each side to 3 and 9'clock.
 
Last edited:
geetarman,

Bart B. generally notes 30,000 rounds on rimfires shooting ammo made after the priming compound switch of 1982 (could be wrong on the date).

Have you mic'd out the bullets and bore? That extra waxy lube might be the sealant needed to keep the accuracy up on your Annie, which would explain why bullets with the lube are shooting better than bullets without.

As a test, you could mix up some beeswax and liquid Alox to lube up some of the dry ammo to see if it shoots better.

Jimro
 
My rifles liked RWS 50 better than most others. During my benchrest years, Lapua Midas was great early-on, then they changed the priming compound and it became less accurate in most rifles. I haven't shot any for about 10 years, so can't comment on recent batches.

I never shot my benchrest rifles at 100 yards, since we didn't compete at that distance and our centerfire range is very windy, so I didn't want to waste the ammo.

If you're shooting at 100 yards, I would think that the bullets with the highest Ballistic Coefficient and still shot well at 50 yards may shoot more accurately, due to reduced wind deflection. Flat-nosed Eley and similar ammos may be pushed around more than the more ballistically-efficient bullets at the longer range.

Higher velocity, subsonic rounds may also group better in the wind, especially at longer ranges. (Because supersonic .22 LR bullets can't stay supersonic for the full flight, and go through the "sonic/subsonic transition zone" (at some point between 25 and 50 yards), they are generally less accurate than bullets that are subsonic from the muzzle.)

I understand that Chrome-Moly rimfire match barrels will hold their gilt-edge accuracy much longer than stainless barrels, perhaps as much as 8-10 times longer. However, they take a longer break-in period than stainless barrels, and may still last 20-30K rounds, so many rimfire benchrest shooters choose stainless barrels and plan on changing them after about 3 years of heavy shooting.
 
I took the Ruger M77-22 to the range today. I did not stay long as the wind was directly out of the north and was keeping the hot range flag horizontal. The rifle still shot the Lapua Standard, Center X and Wolf pretty good. The Midas was not so good and the Lapua Rifle Match not so good. To be fair the wind was picking up and stringing the rounds horizontally.

I think there is nothing wrong with the Annie. . .it just likes the lower priced Lapua ammo.

I am going to do some scope swapping and put the NF on the Ruger and see what it does with better glass. I will probably do the same thing with the CZ.

Goodness knows, I can probably shoot the rest of the year with my stash:)
 
geetarman,

I have tested a lot of Lapua 22LR ammo and have never seen a really bad lot of Midas Plus or Center-X. I have seen a bad lot of Tenex, but it was old and had dry lube.

By the way, Lapua made Midas years ago and changed it to Midas Plus in the blue white and silver foil box 5 or more years ago if memory serves me - at the same time they introduced Center-X and stopped making Master and Midas L & M versions with the two different bullet diameters. You may have an old batch of Midas with dried out lube. That might explain the results you are having.

For comparison among 15 rifles tested, Midas Plus out performed Center-X in 13 of them.

Midas Plus is among the 5 favorite ammos for 10 of the 15 rifles.
Old Midas M made the list in another.
Center-X made it for 11 of the 15 rifles.
Eley Tenex made it for 4 of the 15.
Eley Match made it for 2 of the 15.
 
RimFire5,

The Midas I bought appears to be new production. It was delivered in cellophane wrapped 2 boxes each.

The bullets themselves appear to have a grey drylube appearance. They look a lot like the Tenex I had.

The Standard, Center X, Rifle Match and Wolf MT all have a sticky lube that smells a lot like beeswax.

I suppose I should be more pleased the Annie likes the cheaper???? ammo better.

I just don't really understand why there is so much difference other than it is a .22 thing.

I did look in the chamber of the Annie and do not see anything unusual. The rifle probably has about 8-900 rounds through it. It should not be anywhere close to being shot out.

I will keep playing with it.
 
Geetarman,

It is the wax lube on your Midas that confused me.
The new Midas Plus that I tested has the same lube as Center-X, very similar in feel to SK and Wolf. I don't think Lapua has used wax lube in years. That was the reason that I suspected your Lapua was older ammo. Wax lube, like you find on Eley Tenex and Match, tends to dry out when it gets old and it gets stiff when it is cold.

Another clue would be if the ammo is marked Midas L or Midas M rather than Midas Plus. They replaced Midas L and M years ago with Midas Plus and got rid of the L and M designations when they standardized on a single caliber bullet. In the old days, they made two bullets for the same ammo, M was standard size - L was .001 oversized. They claimed that the L ammo was for barrels that were worn or oversized. I shot both and only had on rifle that preferred the L. There was a difference in performance too. Most of my rifles shot the standard size bullet more accurately.

If the Midas Plus isn't in the blue and white box with silver foil trim, it isn't new stock. Even the bricks have silver foil on the outside box. Interestingly, the newer bricks of Midas Plus and Center-X are packed in a box that is longer than normal - 8 1/2 x 2 3/16 x 3 inches - instead of the more square configuration that is 5 1/2 x3 1/2 x3 inches used for Wolf and SK and most other 22 LR ammos.

By the way, I still have 2 boxes of Lapua Master M, the predecessor to Center-X, that is still in the original cellophane. It looks like new, but it is at least 6 or 7 years old. If I hadn't shot Lapua ammo for 6 years or more, I wouldn't even know it was the old ammo.
 
Rimfire ammo is finicky stuff. Some brands/types like warmer temps than others. RWS 50 does especially well during warmer temps in mid-summer than it does in the spring/winter.

The best ammo I've ever used for winter shooting was Fiocchi Biathlon. It's pretty good outdoors this time of year.
 
Here is the ammo I have been shooting. It appears the Midas and the Center X are not new stock. They did come from the Lapua test center here in Mesa.
The packaging/badging is a bit different than what is shown on the Lapua web page. I don't know if I can find the date of manufacture or not.

The only thing I noticed for sure was the appearance of the Midas. It looks like wax and does not have the oily feel of the other four. Also, the Lapua Rifle Match does NOT appear on the Lapua web page. I first saw this a couple of weeks ago at the Accuracy Speaks gunsmith shop at the range and bought a brick. It shot so well, I went back and bought all they had on the shelf ( 2000 rds ).

I really don't know if this is new stuff or discontinued as I don't see it on the web page for Lapua.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0453.JPG
    IMG_0453.JPG
    44.7 KB · Views: 104
  • IMG_0456.JPG
    IMG_0456.JPG
    42.7 KB · Views: 67
  • IMG_0457.JPG
    IMG_0457.JPG
    39.8 KB · Views: 58
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top