Another win for free speech

Redworm

Moderator
from CNN


Court strikes down Internet porn law
POSTED: 11:00 a.m. EDT, March 22, 2007


PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A federal judge on Thursday dealt another blow to government efforts to control Internet pornography, striking down a 1998 U.S. law that makes it a crime for commercial Web site operators to let children access "harmful" material.

In the ruling, the judge said parents can protect their children through software filters and other less restrictive means that do not limit the rights of others to free speech.

"Perhaps we do the minors of this country harm if (free speech) protections, which they will with age inherit fully, are chipped away in the name of their protection," wrote Senior U.S. District Judge Lowell Reed Jr., who presided over a four-week trial last fall.

The law would have criminalized Web sites that allow children to access material deemed "harmful to minors" by "contemporary community standards." The sites would have been expected to require a credit card number or other proof of age. Penalties included a $50,000 fine and up to six months in prison.

Sexual health sites, the online magazine Salon.com and other Web sites backed by the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the law. They argued that the Child Online Protection Act was unconstitutionally vague and would have had a chilling effect on speech.

The U.S. Supreme Court upheld a temporary injunction in 2004 on grounds the law was likely to be struck down and was perhaps outdated.

Technology experts said parents now have more serious concerns than Web sites with pornography. For instance, the threat of online predators has caused worries among parents whose children use social-networking sites such as News Corp.'s MySpace.

The case sparked a legal firestorm last year when Google challenged a Justice Department subpoena seeking information on what people search for online. Government lawyers had asked Google to turn over 1 million random Web addresses and a week's worth of Google search queries.

A judge sharply limited the scope of the subpoena, which Google had fought on trade secret, not privacy, grounds.

To defend the nine-year-old Child Online Protection Act, government lawyers attacked software filters as burdensome and less effective, even though they have previously defended their use in public schools and libraries.

"It is not reasonable for the government to expect all parents to shoulder the burden to cut off every possible source of adult content for their children, rather than the government's addressing the problem at its source," a government attorney, Peter D. Keisler, argued in a post-trial brief.

Critics of the law argued that filters work best because they let parents set limits based on their own values and their child's age.

The law addressed material accessed by children under 17, but applied only to content hosted in the United States.

The Web sites that challenged the law said fear of prosecution might lead them to shut down or move their operations offshore, beyond the reach of the U.S. law. They also said the Justice Department could do more to enforce obscenity laws already on the books.

The 1998 law followed Congress' unsuccessful 1996 effort to ban online pornography. The Supreme Court in 1997 deemed key portions of that law unconstitutional because it was too vague and trampled on adults' rights.

The newer law narrowed the restrictions to commercial Web sites and defined indecency more specifically.

In 2000, Congress passed a law requiring schools and libraries to use software filters if they receive certain federal funds. The high court upheld that law in 2003.



This is my favorite part.

"It is not reasonable for the government to expect all parents to shoulder the burden to cut off every possible source of adult content for their children, rather than the government's addressing the problem at its source," a government attorney, Peter D. Keisler, argued in a post-trial brief.

Not reasonable??!? Seriously? How is it unreasonable to expect parents to take responsibility for their own children instead of handing over their number one job to Uncle Sam? The problem's source is the parent's lack of responsibility, not the existence of porn.
 
I don't know how to answer this one Red.
One the one side we do want freedom of speech but then kids will gain access to things outside their home.
We have to show ID to buy cigarettes or alcohol. you need to have a valid Id to buy a firearm. They have signs on the front of Adult stores stating a age requirement, so in away I see no reason to not come up with a age requirement for the net too. In todays world there's gotta be a way with out infringing on free speech.

Edit.
I know this is being heralded as a victory for free speech but since when is porn speech?
Can we have sex in public and say we are protected by free speech?
Were are being denied individual words and no one in the press is kicking and yelling about that.
A word spoken in anger or without forethought is not hate. I am not defending bad behavior either, but in may cases that is exactly what is is and not hate, but that " speech" is being denied.

We have a real mess going on in this country and there are no cut and dried easy answers.
 
Good decision

The way to "protect the children" is not to turn everyone into a child.

That's assuming that "protecting the children" is even possible, or desirable. There's dirt in the world. Immunity comes from exposure. And I don't recall age restrictions keeping me from getting hold of porn when I was a kid...

--Shannon
 
I'm not a porn fan. I couldn't care less if anyone else is.

There should be no legal restrictions on any possession or viewing of any porn whatsoever. I would agree there should be a ban on the PRODUCTION, PROMOTION, and SALE of any article, porn or not, that required the abuse of a minor.

But a ban on possession of any sort of porn on an internet-connected computer, as easy as it is for hackers to illicitly access your computer and store files there, is absurd.

Is there any way to get congress to pass a law against lightning hitting your phone line and destroying all your networked computers?:D
 
Why not prosecute the parent who gives unlimited internet acces to their child and allows them then to view porn? Wait, that is actually holding parents accountable for the actions of their kids.

I remember when it was simply cable television and guess what, it is up to parents to allow it into the house. You may not want to hear it but the same applies to the internet. Children do not need to be left with unsupervised internet access and there is plenty of software out there available to turn you computer into a G rated day care if you want to use it.
 
Redworm, invention_45 & tube_ee

You guys are absolutely right on this one. The government has absolutely no business putting restrictions on activities which each individual should decide for himself/herself.

This world would be a much better place if the age restrictions were simply done away with for tobacco, alocohol, AND porn. These types of restrictions are just one more instance of the government intruding into our private lives. The govenment has no business being our nanny.
 
I thought pornography, or obscenity as the Supreme Court likes to call it, was not fully protected under the 1st Amendment?

There is a test to determine if content or speech is deemed "obscene" which would then classify it as not completely unprotected, but not "free speech". Can anyone clarify?

The test is as follows:

1. Whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards" would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest, Kois v. Wisconsin, supra, at 230, quoting Roth v. United States, supra, at 489;
2. Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and
3. Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."

Article taken from http://censorware.net/essays/obscene_jt.html

Reading through that test, it would seem that online porn would fall under at least 1 and 3...since 2 is based on state law, I guess it would depend on where the child looked up the porn.


I don't know, maybe I am grasping at all this, but this is definitely interesting.
 
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This world would be a much better place if the age restrictions were simply done away with for tobacco, alocohol, AND porn

You have refereed to your kids if I remember correctly if not my pardons.
You would be OK with these things available to your child at the local mini mart?
 
You would be OK with these things available to your child at the local mini mart?

Any kid who wants tobacco, alcohol, and porn can already get them easily, restrictions or not. Your argument is straight out of the Brady playbook, with just a noun substituted for another.

I don't need the state to tell me how to raise my kid. I certainly don't need the state to decide for me at which age he should be able to drink, smoke, and look at nudie pictures.

Geez, some of you sound like you've never been teenage boys. Prohibitions never stopped us from getting or doing stuff if we really had a desire for it. If anything, they made it more tempting.

Strangely enough, I grew up in a country where smoking and drinking was legal at 16 (beer at 14 if accompanied by a guardian), and I never picked up either habit.
 
Any kid who wants tobacco, alcohol, and porn can already get them easily, restrictions or not. Your argument is straight out of the Brady playbook, with just a noun substituted for another
.

Sorry sir as I have never read any Brady material.

Yep I was a teenage boy, I got my hands on all that stuff and more.
I wasn't thinking of teens more like a 6 or 8 year old girl standing at the magazine counter looking at graphic pictures of sexual acts. If all restrictions are lifted thats what you would have too.

If I saw anyone showing my little girl that kinda stuff you would want the authorities there to protect yourself.

Zat make me a rednecked bubba? Well if so I will gladly resemble that remark.
 
Ok so sell it in the open but put a cover over it. People can then still buy it freely. Noone who doesnt want to see wont have to see. This protect the children nonsense is crap. What about adults you know the people who survived childhood?

Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."

Does anyone else have a real problem with that kind of thinking. I was real young but I want to say I remember tipper gore going after several bands with that garbage line. I think its dangerous to have laws with that kind of wording i guess is what im trying to say.
 
I don't know when some people will realize we do not need any more Gooberment in our lives. I have never needed Congress to tell me how to raise my kids, I did it based on what I knew to be right. If you worry about your young daughter looking at graphic material, well maybe YOU didn't instill the right values in her. It isn't the governments job to instill values and morals, it is YOUR job as a parent.
I still have to laugh, a young person is allowed to drive a killing machine like a car at 16, vote at 18, they are allowed to smoke, they are allowed to join the military and die for this country, but OOOOhhh no,, you can't have a drink. We are just protecting you. Yes I do understand the thoughts behind the age restriction, but then, don't ever draft a person or put them in harms way til they are 21 too. You have no real rights unless you have ALL of them, not just those given you by the State. It is the job of the Federal Government to secure our borders and fight our wars, nothing else was their purpose when it was established. Oh well , they haven't done very well at those 2 jobs, I suppose you would expect better of them raising your kids in your absence.
 
There was a time, not that long ago, when these age restrictions didn't exist. It was up to parents and families to say what goes and what doesn't.

You, sasquatch, favor putting this in the government's hands. I don't.

You mad'em, you protect 'em.

I made mine and I showed her what she could expect when she left the real world, including the actual facts about drugs and sex. It was WORK, and involved more than one screaming fight with a judge.

But now she knows **** from shinola, what to stay away from, and how to pursue a goal in life without me pressing her all the time.

It was my responsibility, and it was a hell of a headache. But I took it.

Take yours.
 
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