Another Safe Thread

[s2krn]

I'm looking for a gun safe with fire protection... At least 40wx60hx26d and good fire protection. My budget is around 2000 dollars give or take, but would consider more if a safe matches all my requirements. I want to pay for quality and not a name! I know fire ratings are very obscure. Is there a gun safe in my price range that will also protect pictures or a laptop as well as my guns. Is it an option to put a document safe inside a gun safe? I know guns should not be stored in a document safe because of moisture, but would a sealed file safe inside a gun safe still cause problems? I'm in Little Rock, Ar if anyone has suggestions on the best place for safes in the area.

 

[a1abdj]

I'm looking for a gun safe with fire protection... At least 40wx60hx26d and good fire protection.

Most gun safes offer limited fire protection, especially when compared to a typical UL rated fire safe. I've opened many gun safes after a fire, and have seen very few that have protected their contents.

My budget is around 2000 dollars give or take, but would consider more if a safe matches all my requirements. I want to pay for quality and not a name! I know fire ratings are very obscure.

The AMSEC BF series is one of my favorite gun safes on the market at the moment, and is fairly close to your budget.

In short, the AMSEC uses a much heavier door (1/2" plate) and a composite injected body (two layers of steel with a wet injected "concrete" in between). It is worlds above any other gun safe in the same price range, and is actually built by a safe company, not a gun safe company.

Is there a gun safe in my price range that will also protect pictures or a laptop as well as my guns

No. Photos and electronic media require a media safe. UL rated media safes control humidity levels as well as provide fire protection to 125 degrees. UL rated document safes only offer fire protection to 350 degrees. Gun safes claim to protect to 350, but I don't know how much faith I would put into that. The AMSEC is the closest thing to a real fire rated safe on the market.

You could use a media insert (small fire rated box) inside of the gun safe for the photos. I don't think they make one large enough for a laptop. A full size media safe would probably run in the $10,000 range new.

Is it an option to put a document safe inside a gun safe? I know guns should not be stored in a document safe because of moisture, but would a sealed file safe inside a gun safe still cause problems?

That's an option, and you should be OK by doing so.

I'm in Little Rock, Ar if anyone has suggestions on the best place for safes in the area.

Don't know of anybody in your area, but I can ship anywhere in the country if I can be of any assistance.

 

[Robanna]

I'm in the same predicament of trying to ID a good safe, but for slightly different purposes. I am more interested in easy HD access and prevention of my son from getting in. Looking for around 10-gun capacity with shelving and an electronic keyboard is essential. What do you guys think of this company:

http://www.patriotsafe.com/gun-safes-28wide.html

Seems pretty good, but not sure how good the electronic keypad is. Looks impressive, but I don't see any UL approval rating, etc.

Thanks.

 

[s2krn]

I've looked at a few Canon, Champion, AmSec, and Browning gun safes, but it gets more confusing the more I look at them. There is no "universal" rating system for fire safety. Some of the safe companies use independent fire ratings, but it seems a lot like Jeep's "trail rating". For a vehicle to qualify for a "trail rating" it must be a Jeep product; yet they advertise they are the only company with Trail Rated vehicles. Well no kidding!! So this is frustrating me somewhat. Of course all the safes look good, but I'm not interested in looks; I want it to function. Honestly I'd prefer a flat black no frills safe with good fire protection. It sounds like I may have to buy a seperate document safe for my wife. Or I guess I could go with a large enough safe to put a small document safe inside the gun safe. Thanks for all the info in the first reply it does help. Any other suggestions from folks happy with their safes? Prices and models would be great. Thanks again.

 

[a1abdj]

What do you guys think of this company:

http://www.patriotsafe.com/gun-safes-28wide.html

I think I could get you the same safe, different name, and better lock for a better price

There is no "universal" rating system for fire safety.

There actually is. Its the UL ratings which encompass everything from fire protection to burglary protection.

At this point, there is no gun safe on the market which carries any UL rating against fire or burglary, although the AMSEC and Graffunders are close. In fact, the smaller AMSEC BF series safes do carry a UL rating. Their gun safes are built almost identically, but have never been submitted for testing (to my knowledge).

 

[s2krn]

I can't remember where I read information on safe fire tests, but I remember that some companies basically get their safes to a set temperature then cool them down quickly. The author of the article was explaining how inferior the test was because a safe will be sitting in high temps "smoldering" if you will. The safe will not be dragged free of the structure in other words. Some companies are claiming they use ceramic fire protection; rather than concrete or fire resistant sheet rock (gypsum board i believe), and claim it is superior. Does anyone have first hand knowledge of this? Patriot safes use something called Pyro-Stop plus and claim it it superior. Rhino uses sheetrock. Citadel Safe uses gypsum board with a dead space. Champion use "phoenix fire protection"... who knows. Fort Knox uses couldn't easily find what they use. American security uses "New DryLight insulation is poured between inner and outer steel walls". Canon uses "Improved Type X Gypsum". Liberty uses "fire board". Homeland security... not sure but they offer different levels of protection and have good prices on some HUGE safes.
Here is a link that has most safe companies websites and has some good info on safes in general.
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

Sorry for the long post, but I'm kind of educating myself as I go...

 

[standerson]

Check out the post by a1abdj. I bought a safe from him and have been very pleased.

 

[s2krn]

I looked at the Zykan safe website and they have some great products. I looked at a Cobalt document fire safe today and really liked it. It was 1200 dollars, but it 900 or so through zykan. The only problem is they are 6 hours away from me. There's no way I'd pay 1200 for it when I could get it for 900 straight from the source. The Zykan Diamond Series safes look good on the site, but their largest safe (59.00" T x 39.00" W x 24.00" D) is smaller than I think I want. But then again that size is under 1200 dollars and I could buy a large document safe and still be around 2000 dollars. Just when i though I had some things figured out it just keeps getting harder. Anyone with a Zykan safe please chime in.

 

[a1abdj]

I own several safes from Zykan, although I might be a little biased.

To be honest, most of what I sold is sold in other places. Many of the imported safes are sold under a variety of names. Even large companies like AMSEC and Gardall import the exact same safes and sell them under their brand names. There are also safe companies located throughout the country. What I sell isn't unique to my company.

The difference is that you are buying from somebody who knows what they're selling. A lot of places selling safes are simply selling safes because it's profitable for them. I'm a commercial locksmith that only deals in the safe & vault aspect of the business. Each and every day I'm drilling, moving, and repairing safes. This gives me the insight that many others don't have. Whether or not you buy something from me, make sure you're buying it from somebody who knows what they're selling. You'd be amazed at how complex a simple little steel box can be.

Most of the gun safes on the market today use gypsum-X. This is the same fire rated sheet rock required by building code to be installed in your garage. Most of them call it something different, but it's all the same. Only two companies that I'm aware of, AMSEC and Graffunder, use a "concrete" (also gypsum based). There are a few others that use ceramic.

Safes are nothing new, and have been around for a long time. "Gun safes" are a fairly new invention, only going back around 20 years ago. Just about every fire rated safe that I've ever seen has achieved that fire rating by using some sort of "concrete" that retains moisture. If sheet rock and ceramics were as effective as the gun safe manfuacturers claim they are, then you would see those materials being used on commercial safes.

I personally wouldn't trust most gun safes to protect from fire. I have opened gun safes after fires, and have seen photos taken by other locksmiths. As a general rule, they don't do so well.

My opinion is that gun safes should be used for guns. If you need to store computer media you get a data safe. If you need to store paperwork you get a document safe. If you need to store diamonds you get a burglary rated safe. If you use your gun safe to do anything other than store guns, you're taking a risk. To many people, this risk is acceptable. The difference is that I'll make you aware of that risk. The guy at the sporting goods store won't.