Another "Preventable" Range Incident?

F

fishhead1

New member
Reading some of the other threads on range incidents (won't call them "accidents"), brought to mind an incident I was privy to recently at the local firing range I frequent. Seems there were some young adults in attendance on this particular hot, muggy Florida day (outdoor range, by the way). One of these young folks was a rather well endowed young lady wearing a low cut tank top (OK, it was a typically hot Florida summer day). So I'm minding my own business just shooting away when I hear the range master yelling "CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE"! I look over and see this same young lady sitting (more like falling) onto a folding chair looking with apparent shock at her foot (you can probably guess at this point what happened). After the proper authorities, EMS etc were summoned, and the young lady was wisked away, I got the lowdown on what transpired from the range master
Seems the young lady was shooting her semi-auto when, yep, one of the HOT ejected casings went down the front of her top. In her haste to retrieve the hot casing, (with her free hand), she apparently forgot about the loaded, ready to fire, weapon in her other hand. Sure 'nough, she pointed the loaded weapon (which she had all but forgotten) at her foot and "accidentally" pulled the trigger, sending the round between her big toe and the toe next to it. Luckily, she hit her foot in about the only spot that no terrible, lasting, injury was sustained.
So now I'm wondering. Who could be held responsible for something like this? The range management for allowing what could be construed as irresponsible dress for a shooting range? Should the range master make a comment (touchy subject, I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were he)? Or is it just not the business of the range personnel to be responsible for what their shooting customers are wearing? What think you? :confused:
 
Personally, I don't think the range is at fault here, because while certain types of clothing, like a tank top, might predispose one to having hot brass end up in your clothes, due to the unpredictable nature of ejection it's always a hazard. That's why I think the responsibility is on the gun owner to educate themselves about the rules of gun safety.

I think all of us has probably caught hot brass in our clothes or hair many times.
 
That's an ND [ negligent discharge ] She failed to control her gun properly !
Simple as that !
IT didn't go off , she pointed a loaded gun at herself and pulled the trigger and the gun fired like it should !:eek:
 
One of the things we taught the kids in 4-H Shooting Sports was proper range attire. Tank/tube tops, shorts, flip-flops, and sandals were all no-gos .... 10 year old kids could wrap their head around that. Why can't grown-ups?
 
As an experienced shooter, when I take a new shooter to the range, I brief them on what is acceptable attire and explain the issues involved.

But not everyone gets to take their first trip to the range accompanied by an experienced shooter, and some folks, even after they have the experience to know better, still decide to take their chances.
 
I suppose the young lady's dress may have been a contributor.

But, what we're talking here is "distraction".

When I teach someone to shoot, I tell them that Job #1 is to keep the muzzle pointed downrange.

There will be noise. You will get hit by brass, maybe hot brass down the neck. The gun will have malfunctions. Don't react to anything until you ensure you have control of where the muzzle is pointing.

If you fix your mindset, you will be much less likely to wave your gun around or drop it. Lay it down, pointing downrange, THEN tend to the brass.
 
That's why I think the responsibility is on the gun owner to educate themselves about the rules of gun safety.
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Of course it is,,,
All shooters should self educate about safety.

But that's not the point here.

If their actions cause them to hurt their own selves,,,
Then it's nobody' fault but their own,,,
And if the truth be known,,,
I don't care.

But. (the most important part of any sentence follows the word but.)

When she started the Hot Brass Bra-Cha-Cha,,,
She could just as easily have hit the adjacent person in the head.

No matter what my thinking on this is,,,
I believe any good attorney can convince a jury in civil court,,,
That wearing a tank or low cut top is a commonly known range safety hazard.

Crew neck shirts, ball caps (keep cases out from behind your glasses), and real shoes (no sandals),,,
Should be as commonly required at any range as glasses and muffs.

JMHO

Aarond

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One of these young folks was a rather well endowed young lady wearing a low cut tank top
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I hate that. As Aaron said, there are ample (no pun intended) safety reasons to ban such attire from a range, and besides, I spend so much time worrying about such young ladies and watching for potential accidents that my range accuracy goes to heck every time.:rolleyes:
 
Where would it stop with bans and requirements on clothing at the range? Will full face shields and welding aprons become standard satire? If she were inexperienced I wish one of the males with her would have told her of the risk of that happening (we've all seen it happen and we all know it will. I'm a man and it's happened to me.) If she knew she was well endowed (women who dont dont wear low cut tops) then I wish she had the sense on her own to take that into account.
 
For the same reason you dont crash your car because you got stung by a bee or wasp...you have to maintain control or face a much worse consequence.
 
Hello nightwl64, I hafta know something,,,

...become standard satire?

Was that intentional? ;)

I'm as against over-regulation as the next guy,,,
And I hate to use the "reasonable" word,,,
But in this case I think I must use it.

IMHO,,,
It's reasonable to ask people to wear appropriate range clothing.

If a person can only hurt their own selves,,,
Let 'em shoot buck naked for all I care.

When they can get me hurt through their poor judgment,,,
I don't think it too much to ask they dress appropriately.

Aarond

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@aarondgraham

I agree that certain types of clothing create an elevated risk of catching hot brass. But my point was just that it's a risk you have to be prepared to respond to safely regardless of what you're wearing. Because it will probably happen at some point.

And when it does happen, if you aren't prepared to respond to the situation safely, it will be a very dangerous situation no matter what you're wearing.
 
Given the sorry state of civil remedy in the country today, I believe that, in a lot of states, the range could be held at least partially liable for such a shooting. The hazards of a woman getting a scalding hot round of brass stuck in her bra are so well known that I was warned about it 21 years ago while attending a police firearms instructor course. Then you have all the YouTube videos showing this happening and young women dancing and prancing all over the place with a loaded pistol in their hand. So yes, I believe a range could be found guilty of contributory negligence in a lawsuit if someone got hurt in this manner. T'aint right, it's just the way 'tis.
 
Hello ninjarealist,,,

But my point was just that it's a risk you have to be prepared to respond to safely regardless of what you're wearing.
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Was that a generic "you" or a you meant to denote "me"?

I'm prepared as in I wear a high neck T-shirt, cap, and real shoes at the range,,,
I shouldn't have the risks of harm to me be greater because someone else doesn't.

Like I said,,,
When they risk harm to their own selves,,,
I don't care how they dress nor do I care what they do.

But when they behave in such a way as to endanger me,,,
Then I want to see reasonable behavior from them.

Reasonable means don't wear hot-brass-catching-clothes that could make them accidentally shoot me when they go into the hot brass dance.

Aarond

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My solution was to button up the shirt all the way and tune the extractor so that the great majority of the cases went INTO the shirt pocket !!!
Yes it worked on my 1911 .I was very knowledgeable about tunig a 1911 !! :p
 
@Aarond

It was the generic you. Sorry if it seemed like an accusation. Using the generic you is a bad habit of mine.

I, and the people I shoot with go to the range in what I would consider to be reasonable attire. Long pants, close-toed shoes, shirt buttoned up and a good fit, etc. And usually I don't catch any brass at all.

However, a lot of my shellshuckers spit brass unpredictably. I'm not sure if this is due to my grip or the mechanics of the gun, but most of my guns tend to launch the brass wherever they feel like it. And sometimes you just get that perfect trajectory.

One time I was shooting my USP in a button up shirt, with a collar. It was well buttoned up but while I was shooting I suddenly felt something searing my neck. I placed the gun down on the range platform pointing downrange and then I did the hot brass dance (with due consideration for the other shooters at the range). Seems the case had been launched over my head and lodged itself perfectly in the space between the back of my neck and the collar of my shirt.

So is the conclusion that collared shirts should never be worn to the range? Or is the conclusion that you have to be prepared to control your gun in the event of mild to moderate pain/injury if you want to shoot firearms safely?
 
Reading this thread has given a new meaning to "brass catchers" ..... which used to just mean various contraptions of questionable effectiveness on attached to an AR or other semi-auto to catch your spent brass .... from now on, it may also refer to inadvisably low cut attire .... :D
 
One time I was shooting my USP in a button up shirt, with a collar. It was well buttoned up but while I was shooting I suddenly felt something searing my neck. I placed the gun down on the range platform pointing downrange and then I did the hot brass dance (with due consideration for the other shooters at the range). Seems the case had been launched over my head and lodged itself perfectly in the space between the back of my neck and the collar of my shirt.

So is the conclusion that collared shirts should never be worn to the range? Or is the conclusion that you have to be prepared to control your gun in the event of mild to moderate pain/injury if you want to shoot firearms safely?
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My conclusion is that wearing a broad brimmed hat will protect you from more than just the sun!
 
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