Another Ex. of less guns = more crime

I dunno, blackwater...

Doesn't sound like JBT confiscation here, ala brady bunch or AWB. Sounds more like an IRA/Protestant cease fire, with a bunch of former drug cartel lackies out of work.

Didn't see any mention of government or cartels disarming the commoners.
 
In every state that has passed CCW laws, violent crime has dropped. The UK used to have a much lower crime rate than America. Now their crime rate is rising while ours drops as citizens arm themselves.

rhElementarymydearalaskagunguy
 
really...?

Then how come gun ban NYC has a lower violent crime rate than shall issue Houston or free for all Anchorage?

Then how come gun ban Japan has a lower violent crime rate than the US?

When are you guys gonna learn that arguing gun control based on "crime rates" is simplistic and erroneous...


Wildiftheydoityouwhineifwedoititsokneh?Alaska
 
Wild, I'd like to know where you got your "facts" from?? I've read three pro-gun books, two by Wayne LaPierre and one by John Lott. They both quote justice dept statistics that contradict what you are saying. In all of the 40 states that have passed "shall issue" carry laws, the violent crime rate has dropped across the board. Rape, murder, assault, burglary, all down! I'd dispute your assertion about NYC, because of their gun ban, the criminals rule the streets. Case in point....Washington D.C, the most restrictive gun laws in the U.S, its basically a gun ban. It should come as no surprise that D.C is the homicide capital of the U.S, and their general crime rate is the highest.

Another obscure case in point...Kennesaw Georgia. Back in 1982 they passed a city ordinance REQUIRING every homeowner own a gun. The burglary rate dropped 72% the very next year.:D :D

Australia and England are now really good examples of how gun bans do not work. The crime rate in both countries has sky-rocketed in just a few short years.
 
I'm from the Buffalo, NY area. I don't know who supplies the FBI their numbers but who ever it is, is way off. We have strict very strict gun control and the gun crime and murders are going through the roof here. The good thing is the good guys are shooting back and are getting applauded by the police and D.A.

kenny b
 
I've read three pro-gun books, two by Wayne LaPierre and one by John Lott.
Click to expand...

You think they are any more credible thatn those who take the opposite tack?

Take a read of the Uniform Justice reports. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm NYC/NJ metro area has a violent crime rate of 458 per 100,000.l Honolulu is 276. Guns are strictly controlled. Anchorage with no gun laws whatsoever is 806. Dallas Ft Worth is 554. Flagstaff Az is 514. Houston 723. Jacksonvill Fla 730. Miami 812. By those stats gun control works.

Another obscure case in point...Kennesaw Georgia. Back in 1982 they passed a city ordinance REQUIRING every homeowner own a gun. The burglary rate dropped 72% the very next year.
Click to expand...

So what. Thats post hoc ergo propter hoc and absent more is meaningless.

Australia and England are now really good examples of how gun bans do not work. The crime rate in both countries has sky-rocketed in just a few short years.
Click to expand...

Same. Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Read up...Gun Control Cities like NY, Boston, Honolulu, San Fran, San Diego have lower murder rates than Houston Phoenuix and Dallas (shall issue states) but those are lower than Chicago and Washington DC...see something?


WildheymaybethereismoretoitthanjustguncontrolorlacktherofAlaska
 
I don't know who supplies the FBI their numbers but who ever it is, is way off. We have strict very strict gun control and the gun crime and murders are going through the roof here
Click to expand...

Well tell us how many the FBI says there are and how many there really are...and how you know ;)

WildshouldberightatyourfingertipsAlaska
 
Well tell us how many the FBI says there are and how many there really are...and how you know
Click to expand...

Lets see according to the report in 2004 we had 29 murders, 05 we increased to 30. Funny thing is last week alone we had 6 and thats just a little above the average.
How do I know, because I'm here, want thier names.

kenny b
 
Black, Wild is helping us understand that a utilitarian argument against "gun control" is in error as there are many ingredients to the crime rate stew, culture, economics, migration, inter alia.

Fewer guns does not always mean more crime, e.g. if there was not much crime to begin with (or crime is underreported), see e.g. Japan. As well, more guns does not mean more crime, see e.g. Switzerland.
 
No disrespect to wild, but I think he's in the wrong place to be advancing the gun control agenda. Maybe the brady campaign has a forum he can join!:p John Lott studied 3054 U.S counties from 1979-1992, in all counties that allowed citizens to carry guns, the crime rate dropped. You also realize that if you take the segment of people with concealed carry permits as a whole, their crime rate is lower than the general population, their gun crime rate is almost non-existent. They are the most law abiding segment of the population in general.

If wild is advocating a NYC gun ban policy as an effective means of crime control in other U.S cities.....he is full of bull**** in my opinion.:p Do you realize that the NYC registration law in 1979 led to confiscation in 1992. Do you realize that the 5th ammendment actually protects criminals from registering their guns!!! The U.S supreme court, in the 1968 case of U.S vs Haynes, ruled that was self-incrimination!! The only people that are punished by gun control are the law abiding honest citizens!! Do us a favor wild, go somewhere else and advocate the gun control bull****!!

The statement I made about Austrailia and England are etched in fact. Five years after England's gun ban went into effect, the armed robbery rate is up 53%. Explain that?? Do you think the criminal element is "turning in their guns". I seriously doubt it!! So how can gun control ever be an effective means of crime control?? It can't.!! England now has "disarmed" honest civilians, and ramant armed thugs running the street. Needless to say, they are paying the price for it. Gun ban's, gun control, gun registration, its all a phony, feel good crime control measure that does absolutely nothing, its all bull****.

Instead of prosecuting the guns, why don't we prosecute the guy behind the trigger?? What a concept!!:p
 
actually its me who stopped every day carry.
and i've only been killed once so far.

wild, can you please stop posting in latin, i was home schooled, you ad hoc ergonomical proctol hoc hummina hummina hummina.
 
Lets see according to the report in 2004 we had 29 murders, 05 we increased to 30. Funny thing is last week alone we had 6 and thats just a little above the average.
Click to expand...

Wait first you say the report is wrong then you cite the report.:confused:

Black, Wild is helping us understand that a utilitarian argument against "gun control" is in error as there are many ingredients to the crime rate stew, culture, economics, migration, inter alia.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

No disrespect to wild, but I think he's in the wrong place to be advancing the gun control agenda.
Click to expand...

I'm arguing against statistical dishonesty, not advancing an agenda...are you saying that because the Brady Bunch uses false statistical extrapolations its OK for pro gunners to do too? In other words their lies are lies, your lies are OK?:confused:

ohn Lott studied 3054 U.S counties from 1979-1992, in all counties that allowed citizens to carry guns, the crime rate dropped.
Click to expand...

See KS's argument above.

f wild is advocating a NYC gun ban policy as an effective means of crime control in other U.S cities.....he is full of bull**** in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Really...then explain my stats..if you can

Do us a favor wild, go somewhere else and advocate the gun control bull****!!
Click to expand...

Yep thats the type of rational argument I expected :D

WildstudyupspiffAlaska
 
Wildalaska:
Well tell us how many the FBI says there are and how many there really are...and how you know
Click to expand...

Wait first you say the report is wrong then you cite the report.
Click to expand...

This is a no win battle here, with reasoning like this you'll make someone a good wife someday.

kenny b
 
This is a no win battle here, with reasoning like this you'll make someone a good wife someday.
Click to expand...

Lets see, you get caught in a logical fallacy then you jump over to the playground...nice...:barf:

WildishouldknowbetterthantogetintointellectualwarfarewithanunarmedmanAlaska
 
Three kinds of lies....

Wild, if you cannot handle the fact of individual responsibility for actions you are in the wrong business. A firearm is not more dangerous than a car or a few pounds of chemicals, it is people who misuse them who are responsible for the damage they cause.

The point of this thread was that removing guns from the hands of people who are willing to obey the law leaves guns only in the hands of criminals, while the people who obeyed the law are left defenseless. If you can't use common sense, not statistics, to understand why this is true I cannot help you.

Quotes and statistics from Lott or Brady, or the FBI for that matter, do not prove anything. These people all have agendas with compromise their view of the truth. Personal attacks have no place here, they are the sign of a person lacking the ability to reason. They will also get a thread shut down quicker than anything, and rightly so.

I steadfastly disagree with anyone who states that an uncompromising arguement against gun control is "in error". The Right to Bear Arms is something I hold very dear, it was won with blood of patriots and I will fight for it as long as I draw breath. Once you start down the road of "Perhaps a LITTLE gun control is ok," you are opening the flood gates. I will not concede this point.

... to prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm ... is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

- WILSON V. STATE, 33 Ark. 557 (1878)
Click to expand...
BlackwaternotunarmedatallOPS
 
Lets see, you get caught in a logical fallacy then you jump over to the playground...nice...
Click to expand...

No sir, you ask me a question and I answered it. Try rereading you post, here I'll help.

Well tell us how many the FBI says there are
Click to expand...

I resopnded: Lets see according to the report in 2004 we had 29 murders, 05 we increased to 30.

Wait first you say the report is wrong then you cite the report.
Click to expand...

Have a better day sir,
kenny b
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top