Ed Brunner
New member
I caught a glimpse of Rev Al Sharpton and something about a black lady being shot by police.
Any info?
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Better days to be,
Ed
Any info?
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Better days to be,
Ed
Another Cop Shooting?
- Thread starter Ed Brunner
- Start date
Jason Kitta
New member
Ed,
First let me say I am doing this from memory so, I warned you
The girl was asleep in her car and had gun in lap. I don't remember, but I think the police tried knocking on the glass to wake her and got no responce. They broke the window out, girl wakes up for that and grabs gun. She gets shot and killed. This is the general info, anyone else have details?
Jason
First let me say I am doing this from memory so, I warned you
The girl was asleep in her car and had gun in lap. I don't remember, but I think the police tried knocking on the glass to wake her and got no responce. They broke the window out, girl wakes up for that and grabs gun. She gets shot and killed. This is the general info, anyone else have details?
Jason
So, what's the gripe? You draw a gun on a cop, expect to get shot. Sounds like blue-suicide to me.
More seriously, that's a tricky issue for a patrol officer which smacks of a no-win situation. I came across one drunk I knew who drew a knife when awoken by paramedics. I knew the drunk (a regular of mine) and explained to the paramedics that it was a natural reflex of streetpeople to behave as he did and had he been cognizant of who they were, would not have done so. That was only a knife though. Trouble with a gun is if you stand back and use the PA system on the car (assuming you have one at your disposal), and she awakens and is hostile, you've lost the element of surprise. You get into a shootout anyway (and what of collateral damage?). If she isn't hostile, you can extract her from the auto using the felony car stop techniques. Either way, it's a tough one for a patrol officer. I know, call the Sergeant or Lieutenant and let them resolve it. After all, that's why they're paid the Big Bucks.
More seriously, that's a tricky issue for a patrol officer which smacks of a no-win situation. I came across one drunk I knew who drew a knife when awoken by paramedics. I knew the drunk (a regular of mine) and explained to the paramedics that it was a natural reflex of streetpeople to behave as he did and had he been cognizant of who they were, would not have done so. That was only a knife though. Trouble with a gun is if you stand back and use the PA system on the car (assuming you have one at your disposal), and she awakens and is hostile, you've lost the element of surprise. You get into a shootout anyway (and what of collateral damage?). If she isn't hostile, you can extract her from the auto using the felony car stop techniques. Either way, it's a tough one for a patrol officer. I know, call the Sergeant or Lieutenant and let them resolve it. After all, that's why they're paid the Big Bucks.
Ed..
Its not new. The cops' trial just finished and they were found not guilty.
Last year this young woman (19+ yrs) in Riverside, Calif went whacky, was threatening folks with a gun. She holed up in a car, the cops were there for quite awhile and she fell asleep. When the cops tried to subdue her, she woke up and grabbed her gun and brought it up to bear....the cops had no choice.
There is no question that she was mental. I don't recall if she had drugs in her system and there was some talk of "suicide by cop".
Who listens to Sharpton anyway?
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Its not new. The cops' trial just finished and they were found not guilty.
Last year this young woman (19+ yrs) in Riverside, Calif went whacky, was threatening folks with a gun. She holed up in a car, the cops were there for quite awhile and she fell asleep. When the cops tried to subdue her, she woke up and grabbed her gun and brought it up to bear....the cops had no choice.
There is no question that she was mental. I don't recall if she had drugs in her system and there was some talk of "suicide by cop".
Who listens to Sharpton anyway?
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Ed Brunner
New member
I found this:
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19990510/V000296-051099-idx.html
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Better days to be,
Ed
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19990510/V000296-051099-idx.html
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Better days to be,
Ed
I'd say there was a bit of selective editing and omission on that story.
Odd that 4 cops would respond to a 911 "unconscious woman", don't ya think? That's the kind ya send the EMT wagon and one cop.
Funny how important details are lost along the way
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Odd that 4 cops would respond to a 911 "unconscious woman", don't ya think? That's the kind ya send the EMT wagon and one cop.
Funny how important details are lost along the way
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Rob Pincus
New member
DC,
Unfortunately, too many damn people listen to Sharpton. Mostly poor, unemployed, under educated people, but poeple with votes.. which is all he cares about.
Unfortunately, too many damn people listen to Sharpton. Mostly poor, unemployed, under educated people, but poeple with votes.. which is all he cares about.
Ed Brunner
New member
There are two things that bug me in cases like this.
I dont understand why it is necessary to shoot anybody twenty-three times.
I fail to see how it is racially motivated. I have no doubt that with any race or ethnicity the outcome would have been the same.
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Better days to be,
Ed
I dont understand why it is necessary to shoot anybody twenty-three times.
I fail to see how it is racially motivated. I have no doubt that with any race or ethnicity the outcome would have been the same.
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Better days to be,
Ed
Rob Pincus
New member
I think people get shot 23 times, or some other relatively high number of times, in these some of these cases for this reason:
1. Officers are trained not to fire until they are "in fear for their lives."
2. When "in fear for their lives," officers are taught to shoot until they have stopped the threat.
3. Two officers with Modern Firearms can fire 20 rounds in less than 3 seconds pretty easily.
4. In that massive volley of fire, it is kinda hard to ascertain whether or not the "Threat has been stopped." Especially considering that the officers are already in "fear for their lives."
So, under the standard doctrine of the use of lethal force in use today, if a small group of LEOs are put into fear for their lives, it is not hard for a few dozen rounds to be fired before the next evaluation of the situation.
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-Essayons
1. Officers are trained not to fire until they are "in fear for their lives."
2. When "in fear for their lives," officers are taught to shoot until they have stopped the threat.
3. Two officers with Modern Firearms can fire 20 rounds in less than 3 seconds pretty easily.
4. In that massive volley of fire, it is kinda hard to ascertain whether or not the "Threat has been stopped." Especially considering that the officers are already in "fear for their lives."
So, under the standard doctrine of the use of lethal force in use today, if a small group of LEOs are put into fear for their lives, it is not hard for a few dozen rounds to be fired before the next evaluation of the situation.
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-Essayons
The cops shot 23 times...she was hit 12 times.
Calif. cops are much better shots than NY cops.
Another part left out of the story: at least one cop was leaning in through the window...clearly very vulnerable and unable to protect himself.
Listen guys...the spin is on...4 cops were there because of "threatening woman with gun" 911 call. Like I said earlier...4 cops don't show up on a "unconscious woman" 911. Like all large cities, Riverside doesn't have enough cops to send 4 on "unconscious woman"....4 cops were there because the 911 indicated a dangerous situation.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Calif. cops are much better shots than NY cops.
Another part left out of the story: at least one cop was leaning in through the window...clearly very vulnerable and unable to protect himself.
Listen guys...the spin is on...4 cops were there because of "threatening woman with gun" 911 call. Like I said earlier...4 cops don't show up on a "unconscious woman" 911. Like all large cities, Riverside doesn't have enough cops to send 4 on "unconscious woman"....4 cops were there because the 911 indicated a dangerous situation.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Rob Pincus
New member
52% vs. 46%... they aren't that much better... and their target was seated in a car and half asleep!! (but who's counting???)
Spin is obviously happening, just like it happpened a few months ago with the Diallo case. Glad that everyone isn't buying into this time.
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-Essayons
Spin is obviously happening, just like it happpened a few months ago with the Diallo case. Glad that everyone isn't buying into this time.
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-Essayons
I agree the young woman placed herself in jeopardy by her actions, conscious or otherwise...but the cops fired 19 times and hit her 12 times, 4 in the head. This seems one of those situations where the "need" to do something precipitated a killing. What's wrong with waiting to see what shapes up? If the cops were worried about her frame of mind or condition, their reaction was excessive. If they wanted to head off trouble, why did they break the window of her car, startling her awake: I think her reaction-- reaching for her gun-- was a natural one, and, as it turned out, a decidedly wrong one.