Another AR-15 Question

A

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
For a fella who's not particularly inspired by black plastic, they seem to keep leaping out at me!

A buddy of mine is moving to the People's Republic of Kalifornia, and doesn't want the hassle involved with an AR-15. :barf:

It's custom built from DPMS, Inc., Pre-Ban parts; Model A15, whatever that means. Appearance is "as new". Weight about seven pounds, with scope but unloaded.

Free-floated 18" barrel, including muzzle brake. Flattop, with Weaver mounts. Stock trigger. Maybe 150 rounds run through it.

I'll test to check, but it's supposed to be a 3/4 MOA rifle.

Guesstimated value?

There are some Colt 20-round mags and four 40-round mags from four different manufacturers (!); extra-cost, negotiable and all that jazz.

It has a Simmons "Pro 50" scope, 2.5-10 about which I know nozzing. (I'll look it up in a Shotgun News, I guess, when I find a Shotgun News.)

And, does anybody know anything about the quality of ammo from Houston Cartridge Company?

Thanks for the help,

Art
 
By "Pre-ban parts", I assume you mean the lower is pre-ban and is thus eligible for all the pre-ban fun stuff (the fact that it has a muzzle brake means nothing since it might be permanently attached).

I'm certianly no expert, but if it pre-ban, with the goodies you've described, I would venture its worth about $1200, plus or minus a little. Pre-bans have dropped quite a bit in the past year.
 
Art
I am no expert either so this is just an Opinion. It sorta sound like the AR is close to the Post Ban DPMS Sweet Sixteen which sells for $885.00 at what ever you think Pre Ban does to the Value. Add about $100 for the Colt mags (I just bought 10 Colt's for $220) About $60.00 for the 40's (CTD price) And the Pro 50 is about a $100 scope, MidwayUSA. So I would have to agree on the $1200.00 there abouts range in a good market. I would feel better at $1000-$1100.
As Rock said Pre Bans are sorta slow now, Dr Jeckl on a different board claims that those that want them, have them. Those of us just getting into them don't care due to all the Post Ban stuff and the lower pricing.
Again, I am NO expert and I am going off of reserch done while buying my BM.

As for the ammo I don't have a clue. Check out http://www.ammoman.com for the 55 grn Portugeese or the 62 grn steel cored stuff.

Good luck


Karsten
 
I upped my estimate based on the free-floating barrel and sub-MOA claim of accuracy. Of course, if that doesn't mean much to you, then its not worth the extra bucks. I do think there is some value in a pre-ban as a home defense weapon, or IDPA-like carbine for competition. Other wise, for accurate shooting and plain ole plinking, I'll take my post-ban Bushy anyday.
 
No, Rock...if that was for me do to price....hey opinions are opinions. The darn thing could be worth $1200.00
I saw a DMPS upper and a Sendro lower for $825, sans Mags.
I just paid $830 for a VMatch and another $300 for mags.
I have picked my next AR as well and it may be a darn DPMS or a custom ASA. Them Critters are bad, just bad....Art, get it, then start looking for your next AR fix.
 
Art: Just a word of caution about "pre-ban". Unless the rifle was originally configured as a total rifle, pre-ban, then it's not a legitimate pre-ban. Just the fact that the lower was manufactured pre-ban does not qualify the rifle as a pre-ban.

My post-ban Bushy Shorty with DPMS free-float tube ($35) and JP trigger/hammer combo easily shoots 3/4" groups at 100 yds.

I persoally wouldn't pay more for a pre-ban, as the pre-ban features are worthless to me, but that has nothing to do with the value of a legitimate pre-ban to somebody who wants a pre-ban.
 
Karsten, please do yourself a favor and RUN from anything that says ASA on it.

ASA has really flubbed a couple of their rifles so that basically the opinion of shooters out there is that if you get an ASA that is a real performer you've really lucked out. Then there is the issue about if you ever have a problem with the rifle and you go to return it and you've got to deal with Bob the owner, the guy is reknowned for his ability to be a first rate jerk. ASA customer service is netorious for being bottom of the barrel.


And Olympic Arms upper with one of the super match uppers would likely be a safer entry level custom upper than ASA would be. DPMS I don't have much problem with except that their configurations aren't really my style. Back when I was choosing my custom match grade barreled upper it took me about 3 months to decide, I was torn between a JP Enterprises 24 inch barreled upper and a DPMS 24inch bull upper, I chose the JP upper and in it's final form the gun weighs 17 pounds with no weight intentionally added, a bull barreled DPMS upper would have likely made the gun weigh in at 18-19 pounds.
 
Uglyguns
Thanks for the info. You are the second person with the same input about ASA. I found a 16 inch complete upper locally for about $550 and figured to put it on a BM lower.
I don't really know why I want one, next month I pick up my 16 inch VMatch. Sick puppy I am, I already have 10 USGI 30 and 10 Colt 20's coming and I have the ammo too.

Well, no ASA stuff for me.

Karsten
 
Yeah, it's a disease. I started out only wanting one AR15 and to get a couple different uppers for them. Then I figured out that it's only around 250-350 dollars more to make them a complete AR15, plus living in Ca. made me figure that is more is better.

I've got 2 postban Bushmasters, a heavily customized DPMS/JP Enterprises AR15, and an Armalite AR10 A4 that is waiting for some custom work when I can afford it.

I've still got 3-4 AR15 uppers that I want in different configurations and chamberings, then for the AR10 there are about 3 uppers I want for it as well.

Then after those are done I'm gonna switch my focus to bolt actions.


And about the wonderful ASA owner known as "as***le Bob"? Well, all of the reports I based my opinion on were rather old stories. Looking around I found a recent post about the owner, seems he's still got a winning personality. Check this out for a more recent account of a run-in with Bob of ASA.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=18256#lastPost

It's fitting with all the other accounts I've seen over the past 2 years, this being the most recent encounter I've heard about. The last was about 6 months ago when Bob managed to piss off a couple potential business partners and employees.


[Edited by uglygun on 04-26-2001 at 09:11 PM]
 
Another caution on ASA

When I would peek at the original AR15.com a year or two ago, I was amazed at all the horror stories about dealing with American Spirit Arms and its owner in the ASA forum. Even read posts about the owner threatening customers with physical violence when they brought ASA guns into the factory store in AZ for warranty repairs. Definitely not the way to run a business.

They do make a good looking product from what I've seen at their gunshow booth. I've been wanting a complete upper for an orphan Bushmaster lower I have and was tempted to buy ASA. Then I remember the troublesome posts on AR15.com and a little voice in my head says "Buy ASA, are you crazy!?!"

I'll buy a Bushmaster upper when I get around to my purchase. Also, I've never heard much of anything derogatory about DPMS, mostly good reports.

PS, I wouldn't place much, if any value on the aftermarket mags for the AR, stick with USGI.
 
Bob might be what everyone says, but I have had no problems either with the ASA lower I use with my Rock River Arms DCM upper for highpower shooting, or the ASA 22 inch flattop with Harris barrel. The ASA upper is really accurate, well put together, and does not jam. That's all I want, not for Bob to hold my hand and whisper sweet nothings in my ear.
 
Yeah, to an extent I'd agree with you. Then again you've got to wonder if you're gonna be the lucky person who gets the lemon and is gonna get to deal with Bob.


I had a part go down on my AR10 and I returned it to Armalite to have it replaced, their customer service is nothing but first rate and they repaid me for my shipping costs to get the part back to them so they could replace it. Lifetime Warranty with a no BS customer service record. I've got a real love affair for Armalite, they are just wonderful in my opinion but you do have to pay a bit more to play the Armalite game.

I've been a rowdie at AR15.com for a bit over 3 years and I've been there to witness all the fun. Those who get a good performer from ASA should count their blessings, that's how I feel about it.


Over the years the reports about AR15s with the most problems I heard were mainly coming from 3 makers, ASA with poor customer service and quality control, Hesse arms with low quality parts or out of spec parts, and Bushmaster where they would occasionally have a blemmed upper that was termed the "Purple Bushmaster Syndrome" as well as they had a brief period where they were over torquing barrels causing them to need excessive windage to be zero'd.
 
Uncle Art

Check AR15.com for a list of dates based on serial #s of the DPMS. Very few were preban.

I prefer the Colt preban myself but my DPMS will shoot better than I can hold it.
 
So Art, ya gonna be gettin it and join the rest of us sicko's scrounging around for an infinite number of mags :eek:
And where's the pic's?

Karsten
 
Well, Karsten, I never know what I'm gonna do with the various guns that float through. I sorta doubt I'll be chasing magazines, though. Except for playing with the local feral dog pack, I don't usually need more than one shot. :D

A buddy of mine is drooling over the Bushmaster, and the DPMS is sort of a consignment critter; I'll try to figure out a fair price on the package...After I shoot up some of that ammo which got left with me, of course. :) Gotta do a comparison test for accuracy, right?

Got two 1911s to do trigger jobs; one needs a "workover"; gotta set up a 1,000-yard target frame; behind on loading; and, and...

So many guns, so little time!

:), Art
 
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