ANIB S&W 36 Chiefs Special 1955 Box-Lid Ammo Warning???

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Picked up this ANIB S&W Model 36 Chiefs Special (S/N 1358xx) yesterday with 3" pinned barrel, round butt, angled flat latch thumb release, and diamond checkered service grips, plus box, papers, and unopened cleaning kit.. No indications that it has been shot since leaving the factory circa 1958. Yahoo!!!

So, inside the box lid are very basic directions for use, dated 1955. Nothing out of the ordinary, until the last section on ammunition:

" Ammunition - Factory-loaded, smokeless powder cartridges with plain lead bullets are recommended.

Experience shows that metal patched bullets are frequently responsible for barrel trouble."

I'm curious, what's this reference to metal patched bullets? Is this the early moniker for jacketed bullets? Was jacketed/metal-patched ammo suspect for barrel wear in 1955?

BTW, I'm planning to try Federal's Nyclad .38 Special standard pressure SWC or HP ammo for accuracy. Nyclad should protect the barrel, eh? Good personal protection loads?
 

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Here's a picture of the box lid instructions:
 

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Well, being born around the time that piece was made, I've not heard that term before...just guessing, but it PROBABLY refers to either jacketed bullets OR to gas-checked lead bullets...I know that gas-checked bullets, IF put together improperly, CAN cause ALL KINDS of problems! Nice acquisition, too, BTW....mikey357
 
Those Federal Nyclads will work just fine in your old Chief Special and they are just about as good as it gets in a standard pressure .38 special. The bullet lead is very soft, yet the nylon coating keeps it from leading the barrel and when they hit they expand nicely.

7th
 
At the time that gun was made there were some VERY hot .38 special loads available. Both off the shelf and from loading data. Most if not all of the hot stuff was either gas checked or jacketed. (Patched)

I know that the first run 36s would handle a lot of shooting with military full patch (ball) ammo but it wasn't recommended. Some of the "High Velocity" .38 spec ammo was for large framed guns only. Not even to be used in the M&P medium frames. Some of the old hot .38 spec was a lot hotter than the 9X19.

Sounds like you got ahold of a genuine goodie.

Sam
 
We've come a long way, baby :)

In 1958, jacketed bullets consisted mostly of either full-jacketed or half-jacketed soft points. Bullet manufacture at that time had not had enough demand or experience (in handgun ammo) for FJHPs. "Metal Patched" is old nomenclature, and the reason for the warning is that much of the FMJ had harder jackets than the barrel was intended for, and many factory FMJs were loaded hot. And,there had been many cases of the half jacketed bullets losing the jacket "cup" in the forcing cone. Things are much improved now. At that time, also, they were just beginning to realize that little or no expansion occured below 1,000 fps, and the warning gave the handloader a bit more "reverse incentive" not to hot-rod the rod :eek:
 
The Federal *125grain* Nyclad hollowpoint in standard-pressure .38Spl is currently the most trusted defensive ammo in standard-pressure .38. It's what we tend to recommend for the recoil sensitive, those shooting very light alloy guns or those with old, valuable guns such as yours. They're very pleasant to shoot, and show unusual expansion for their moderate velocity. They could come close to 1,000fps in your 3" barrel.

You may have to special order some at your local gun dealer. They're not very expensive as defensive fodder goes; many people shoot them exclusively and on a valuable gun like yours, I'd certainly consider it.

NICE catch :).
 
At that time, the only .38 jacketed (metal patched) ammo was intended for highway patrol use in the heavy frame .38-44 S&W and Colt New Service revolvers. It was of the "metal penetrating" type and was very hot; some used solid brass bullets. Cautions against its use in lighter frame guns was common and ammunition boxes were marked with the reverse warning that the hot ammo was not to be used in small frame revolvers.

Jim
 
Wow! What a wealth of good info - thanks everyone. It's great to learn the history of this older revo and ammo.

Went looking for Fed Nyclad standard .38Special ammo and can't find anyone who stocks it locally. Found some of the "lighter" +P Nyclad, P38N, but none of the standard. Federal tells me that their P38N 125 gr HP +P develops only 9% higher pressures than their P38M 125 gr HP standard load.

Anyone know how today's standard and +P loads compare to 1955 ammo? I wonder if the 9% higher pressure would harm this like-new condition, early Chiefs Special? Were design tolerances that close in those days, without at least a 25-30% stress margin?
 
Hmmm.

See, if this was Remington we were talking about, I'd advise caution. But it's Federal. All else being equal, Federal's rep is to load their stuff pretty dang light...at the lighter end of the power spectrum of any of the major makers.

Second, being Nyclads, you're not going to lead the barrel up and raise the pressure that way. With a classic like this, I'd still check every few dozen rounds with new ammo I'm trying, checking the barrel with the cylinder swung out and a small flashlight.

Dunno. I'd certainly consider shooting small amounts of the +P Nyclad 125grain (as opposed to the +P 158 flavor) and if I had it loaded for bedside defense, the 125+P Nyclad would be an excellent choice.

But...hmmm...I'd be hesitant to shoot more than a couple of boxes of those 125+P Nyclads through it. I'm 90% or more sure it won't hurt but damn, that IS a classic and I'm hesitant to give advice I'm not totally sure about. That thing is a piece of our history, you're really it's "caretaker" :).
 
Jim March: "That thing is a piece of our history, you're really it's "caretaker"."

Thanks Jim, I agree wholeheartedly with you. I plan to start with the standard pressure Nyclads once I track them down (probably on the Internet). I don't want to push the envelope regarding the +Ps, however, if I had any indication that 1955 .38Special leaded ammo was essentially pressure equivalent to the "lighter" Federal +P Nyclads being sold today, I may shoot a few to check for recoil, accuracy, etc. No particular application in mind, just want to examine the 36 CS performance envelope.
 
Ammoman has standard pressure 125 grain Nyclad for $95 for 5 boxes of 50. That's about the best price I have seen on the net. He also has +p Nyclads, Nyclad wadcutters (148 grain), and an assortment of ball ammo. He also has free shipping! Hope this helps.

www.ammoman.com

Brian
 
dont shoot it

thats good advice.i bought mine in 1958 and i still have it .many times people have tried to buy it but i dont want to sell it.mine is a 3inch ss round butt chiefs special.when i want to shoot a 38 i use my model 14 target pistol. i think you may have a nice collectable there. it is still good for carry but i dont shoot it much. swabjocky
 
Good point VictorLouis.

I checked the Standard Catalog of S&W, Supica and Nahas 1995, and their dated prices assign only a $75 premium for Model 36s NIB versus Excellent condition ($325 versus $250). They indicate a premium for the flat latch models like mine, but don't state how much. I consider I got an "OK" price ($275), based on these 1995 prices.

So, I decided I can live with the $75 hit (cheap entertainment), and visited my local range yesterday afternoon to enjoy shooting the 36. What fun!

I shot 125 grain Federal Nyclads: 1 box standard pressure and 1 box +P. To my feel, the +P produced only slightly more recoil, however, my SA accuracy went from approx. 4" groups at 10 yards with the std. pressure to 6-8" with the +P. Evidently, it doesn't take much increased recoil in these lightweight (23-24 oz.) J-frames to degrade my accuracy, or perhaps this confirms this 36 performs better with the std. pressure, aka "Chiefs Special" rounds.

My DA shooting was atrocious. I had a hard time adjusting to the somewhat cramped grip for my hands, the thin service grips, and the heavy, short trigger pull. Any suggestions for improvement? I may try some of the J-frame "banana" grips for better fit to my large hands.

BTW, I doubt the gun was previously shot. After these two boxes it now has a faint case ring around the firing pin hole in the frame, which was not there prior to my shooting. No more NIB ... (sigh)

BTW2, based on these two .38Special rounds, I can't fathom the recoil produced by the .357Mag in even lighter J-frames. Aowwww!

Thanks for all the great feedback!
 
Glad that the "New Kid" got--and will get--some use! FWIW, MY favorite grips for a J-frame that'll get fired a lot--as opposed to carried concealed--are the Hogue finger-groove Monogrips in rubber--work VERY WELL, at least for me....mikey357
 
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