And for a further word about the 9 mm (cont).

B

buzz_knox

New member
From the previous thread about why people hate the 9 mm:
"Sorry, I have to agree with A, all the gunfighters I know on LAPD metro SWAT, won't touch a 9mm. They're ruthless on anyone who shows up with one, theylet you be if you got a .40."

Wow. What do they do if you show up with a .45 or 10 mm, assume the intern position?
 
I can't even begin to explain what is wrong with that mentality...

------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
I do not hate the 9mm nor do I hate anyone who loves it. I must confess that I have piece of mind packing a .45ACP knowing that it is the highest amount of power I can control in a relaively small package.

I am confident that the 230 grain hydrashok is an awsome fight stopper-----safety glass or not, PCP or not, heavy clothing or not. What's more I feel comfortable carrying ANY .45ACP load 230 gr ball, 185,200, or 230 grain JHP. The only round I don't care for is the ridiculous Aguila round that has a 115 grain HP or some other light bullet. It is not importatnt enough for me to waste the grey matter to know exaclty what this Aguila garbage is loaded with.

The 9mm is adequate and I feel well-served by it but I have the option to carry the .45ACP so I do.

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Will, I agree. Well said.

I FEEL a little more secure with my Sig .40 than my Glock 26. It's simply a matter of that slight bit more power and size. However, I'd rather carry my Sig than my Glock 30. Don't ask me why but it just doesn't flip my switch or give me the same security. It all comes down to what I shoot best. I shoot my 229 better than my 26 and my 26 better than my 30. That's the real reason I prefer it. The caliber is just a side issue and benefit.
 
I have very carefully considered my carry-caliber choices and I keep coming back to the 9x19, 41AE, and 45ACP. I use my 115g JHP+P+ in the 9mm, my stash of 180g Gold Dots in the 41AE, and my ultra-accurate 230g Golden Saber load in the 45.
These choices, I believe, serve me perfectly in the civilian defense role.

If I'm feelin' frisky I pack one of my wacko choices; 5.5" Redhawks in 41 or 44 Mag, a 4" GP100, or my EAA 38 Super.
All are adequate.

My favorite is my 1911 in 45.

(this list do not include my 'always')

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
I recently talked to two guys who fought in Vietnam. They both walked point. They both carried .45s when they walked point; one had a Thompson; the other a grease gun. They both said they liked them because the caliber could knock through the heavy brush. There's no way a 9 could knock through brush like that. Even when I go shooting out in the desert and set up targets within the bushes, a .357 will deflect bigtime if it hits a branch or leaf. The .45 goes right on through to its intended target. .45 is head and shoulders above the 9 for hitting people through obstructions. Long live the .45.
 
a

Uh, you do realize that the .45s you both mentioned are submachineguns, right? Longer barrels for higher velocities? Those are inapplicable to this discussion.

As for hitting people through obstructions, I'm not an LEO. I have no official immunity if I shoot through an "obstruction" and hit the innocent bystander who took cover behind it.
 
I like the 9mm and consider myself well armed with one. I don't have a .45 yet, just bought my first 10mm :) I shoot the glock 26 very well and have confidence that 11 9mm's are enough. When I actually get a .45 then I might change my mind, but for now the 9mm or 10mm are plenty.

------------------
Beware the three D's: The dumb, drunk, and deranged. Chadintex@hotmail.com
 
I also preferr 9mm. Low recoil, high capacity, and faster target recovery; what more can you ask? With today's technology in hollow points; 9mm has +90% one shot stop. Don't get me wrong, I have 1911s and 40s, but for defense; it's my Beretta 92fs. Another consideration, is because the 9mm's low cost to shoot ($5 Reloads,$7 factory); the shooter tends to practice more which in turns, gains confidence and control. Also do to low recoil; both male and female shooters have better control and less intimidation; which is often the case with the larger caliber. I see gun salesman all the time suggest to first time female buyers, their best bet is a 38 snub; what they fail to tell is the recoil on the snub is more than a 9mm auto; after one outing at the range, the gun goes in the safe and often not practiced due to the pain caused by the recoil. 40s and .45 ACP are great stoppers, providing you can hit your target on the first shot, the fraction of a second it take to re-acquire the target, might be the decision factor of the battle. I not here to flame the 45s and 40s; just making my point.
 
Thompson did and does still make a 1911 style pistol in .45 that is not a submachine gun. However, I believe that they go under the name "Auto Ordinance" now.
 
Greetings All; I do like the 9m/m caliber
also. Being a former LEO, I can shoot to
any point just as good with the 9m/m, as
I can with a .40 and/or .45!!! :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
I've never been impressed by the ballistic differences between the various calibers commonly used by law enforcement, e.g. 9mm, 40, .357, 45. I believe that most handgun calibers are pretty anemic and that shot placement is the critical variable. What I like about the 9mm is that it very reliable in most semiautomatic pistols and that recoil recovery time is short.

Jeff
 
Buzz. Yup! You right. The Thompson and thebgrease gun are both sub-machine gun, and in .45 ACP. Wanna bet them dude's back-ups was 1911's? I too carried the grease gun, with a 1911 backup. Made for exreme feeling of well being and longevity.
My preference is a 1911A1, moderately customized for reliability by Bob Chow back in the early 1960's. However I usually carry an (pre-sellout) S&W 6906 in 9mm with Federal 9BP ammo. If my wife should have to use it, she is more comfortable with the gun. Also, while I strongly dislike magazine safeties, with any amount of 7 grandchildren liable to be around, I am more comfortable with the magazine out of the gun.
While I ammuch more comfortable with the .45, I do not necessarily feel ill armed with the S&W. I feel bullet placement is the key to survival, not power.
Paul B.
 
Buzz: Of course I know that those .45s are submachineguns with longer barrels. As far as the immunity bit; if I shoot at a bad guy in my house, miss and the bullet passes out of my house and hits an innocent bystander, I doubt if I would be criminally prosecuted. I'd have to research it, but my bet is that I would also not be liable in civil court. Also, why would I ever have the intent to shoot at a good guy through a barrier? My intent would be to shoot at a bad guy. My point is that the .45 has only slightly more recoil than a 9 (frankly, I think the 9 has sharper recoil, but that's another issue), and offers a lot more in return, such as being able to shoot through brush and perhaps glass in order to hit the intended target.
 
Color me crazy but I only notice more muzzle flip w/a .45ACP versus the 9mm. The punch is almost the same IMMHO. The flip does account for a slower recovery time but I can still pop some caps in short order.

With a 1911 frame that's all steel, I don't see where the muzzle flip is as issue at all.

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
A,

Once again, you're talking in HUGE generalities. The fact is that the .45 has very little additional "brush busting" ability than the 9mm, because ALL bullets are prone to deflection when hitting something in their path.

That's a simple matter of physics.

------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
In regards to .45s shooting through brush, Lt. Col. George in Shots Fired in Anger, a book about his WWII experiences on Guadalcanal and later in Burma, noted that the Thompson SMG was regarded as a poor point weapon precisely because it was so lacking in penetration. What they preferred for the point position was a BAR man. Those twenty rounds of .30-06 ball zipped right through trees to hit Japanese troops on the other side.

Maybe Vietnamese jungles are different from those in Burma?
 
All I know is my own experience shooting at paper targets that I deliberatley put inside sgaebrush out in the desert. I have done this many times with the conclusion that the .357 almost always deflects from the twigs and I miss my target; the .45 almost never deflects from the twigs and I hit my target. Maybe the 9 performs differently in this scenario than a .357. But I doubt it.
 
I use a .45 automatic as a carry gun but I have two 9mms, a Browning Highpower ang a SIG P210. If for some reason I needed to defend muself with either pistol. I would feel quite well armed.
 
It's true a .45 will penetrate barriers better, but I doubt I'll ever need to shoot through heavy brush or auto glass. That's cop stuff, not personal defense. If I lived up north where people wear heavy clothes I would probably go with a .40 or .45, but here in Florida, the most likely barrier you might have to shoot through is a T-shirt. The nines have an advantage here in practical terms. You can either pick a small nine like a Kahr or Kel-Tec for ease of concealment, or wear a "Florida Holster" (fanny pack) with a Beretta 92 or Glock 19 and hi-caps.

There may be percentage point differences in Marshall and Sanow's data between 9s, 40s and 45s, but with decent ammo they're all over 90% (as someone always says in these debates, shot placement is probably the important variable). I feel that once you get into calibers with enough penetration to reach vitals and enough speed to expand a hollow point, whatever you shoot best is the right way to go. I would not rely on anything below a 9mm. Our new house gun is a 9mm, chosen partly because my wife can handle the recoil. With 15 rounds of 124-grain Speer Gold Dot on board, and two spare mags, I think we're ready for things that go bump in the night.

PS: drop over to General Discussion to see how my wife did at the range....
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37425
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top