An ugly .303 and various ammunition: experience trumps theory

[Oleg Volk]

As I may have mentioned, I own an ugly sporterized P1914. The wood around the barrel is gone and the barrel itself free-floated: the design is functional but uglier than some White House interns. I bought it for $85 which included a 20 round box of UMC ball and work to add sling swivels and a sling. I found that the rifle was very accurate and that it kicked less than one would have anticipated given its lightened condition. Recently, I replaced the original bolt mechanism with a "speedlock" kit which, in essence, upgraded it to a Remington 700 type trigger. It now cocks on opening and the trigger got crisper, lock time shorter. I decided to try it out. I also dug up some "good" ammo that I had stashed to check functioning.

As expected, Greek and South African non-corrosive ball worked fine. The surprises came with the Remington ammunition.

Soft-point round nose ammo would not feed from the stripper clip, though it would feed fine once load into the intergral magazine one by one.

To my surprise, UMC ball would not load from a clip either!

Accuracy was good with all rounds but Greek ball had a slight edge, followed by the rest of the bunch. In the past, only rather ratty Canadian ball had distinctly worse accuracy (i.e. 2" at 25m instead of 1/3").

The lesson of this is to make sure you try your nice, premium, designer, social ammo before serious uses. I used to think that I'd use the soft point for fighting but now would rather use Greek, South African or even original British, if only for the hollow nose construction (similar to Russian 5.45). Similarly, Speer 124gr +P which worked great in every other gun would not feed at all, not even once, in my Kahr P9 (which would otherwise be 100% with any other ammo brand/weight/type). Try before you rely.

 

[AC]

I prefer cock on closing and wish all bolt actions were so made. The .303 round is sweet and so are P-14s.

 

[Long Path]

Why would you take the fastest bolt action rifle around and make it a cock on opening rifle? The original accuracy was adequate, was it not?

I understand why the bullet design interfered with feeding from stripper clips. I think that I would keep the magazine loaded with Rem 180 SP, and my stripper clips loaded with either Greek, Egyptian, or Win white box ball FMJ.

 

[Art Eatman]

For rate-of-fire, a cock-on-closing bolt-action is faster than "conventional". This was fairly well proven by the Brits in competition in military matches against the Garand. The bolt is much easier (and thus faster) to open with one's rather weak leverage via one's fingers. There is much more strength available to push the bolt closed while cocking the firing pin.

At any rate, like old Confucious said, "One test is better than a thousand expert opinions."

, Art

 

[Oleg Volk]

This gun is very muzzle-light. The effort required to cock on closing disturbed my grasp on the weapon too much. And faster lock time does help.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Interesting Observations, Oleg - - -

First--I have no experience with the pattern 14 rifles. All .303 experience is with No 1, No. 4 and No. 5 Lee Enfield types. But, since the Brits originally designed the P14 (Wait--What was the P13?) to work with their standard service cartridges and clips, I fail tosee how this would be so different.

1. Loading from sripper clips - - Unless there is radical difference in overall length, I wonder that the soft point bullet would change the feeding from clip to magazine. My soft point handloads are put up with the Sierra 180 spitzer type and they work well from clips in the SMLE types. I've also used a box or two of the Winchester RN 180s, with like results.

I have to go back and look at some ammo I recently bought, put up in clips and bandoliers, and see how they are loaded. Pretty sure it is with rounds 1, 3 and 5 case heads flat against the base of the clip. I have also loaded a lot of clips with first ctg flat, and each subsequent one with rim overlapping the previous. They run right on in. Do you perhaps have a damaged clip or two?

2. As to ammo - - -I remain amazed at the consistent accuracy of the old original British Mark VII ammunition. Yeah, most of it is corrosive, but it sure shoots well from my No. 4 Mark 1 rifle. I like the Greek ball as well. have you tried any of the South African .303 ball? I bought some but haven't tried it yet.

Have you tried handloads yet? The Sierra 180 Game King does well with IMR 4320. I haven't tried the newer Match King 174 gr. bullet so far.

3. Also interested in your comment, "Similarly, Speer 124gr +P which worked great in every other gun would not feed at all, not even once, in my Kahr P9 (which would otherwise be 100% with any other ammo brand/weight/type). "

Here, again, my exposure is limited to one such pistol--my own P9. It had fed everything I tried in it, factory and, once I learned to discard certain cases, handloads. I presume you're referring to Speer Gold Dot 124 HP.

Do I recall from a previous string that you modified your P9 to accept the shorter magazines? Have you tried the Glod Dots from a full-length magazine? Just curious, because I have contemplated modifying my pistol as well.

Best,
Johnny

 

[Oleg Volk]

My Kahr P9 is stock. 124 +P Gold Dots nosedive in the magazine every time.

Both UMC and Remington seem to use the same brass and the shape of it is wrong. Similar situation to Barnaul 30-06 case being so wrong that they wouldn't fit into Garand clips. The point I tried to make is that folks to carry exotic ammo (Glasers/RBCD/etc.) without testing first may be in for a nasty surprise come trigger time.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Interesting note Oleg.

I wonder if the outer rim diameter of the brass is any larger on the new commercial stuff vs the old surplus ammo> Is the surplus ammo steel cased etc?

I had a similar problem with my 30-06, factory stuff is all good, but once fired brass revealed WOW my chamber is REALLY tight. With a well made weapon it doesn't take much "out of tolerance" in your brass to cause problems.

Always check your ammo for functionality and accuracy.