An inadvisable practice?

C

Coinneach

Staff Alumnus
Some months back, I made up a couple of small signs and posted them on the insides of my cottage's front and back windows (the only ones large enough for an average-size person to get through).

The signs are 4"x5", and read as follows:

WARNING: Occupants are armed and trained in the defensive use of firearms. Illegal entry will be met with appropriate force.

Some friends, non-lawyer and non-gun types, have warned me that, should I ever have to use lethal force, I'll be painted by the prosecution as a psycho who's just looking for an excuse to kill someone, based on those signs.

Personally, I don't think a jury would buy that argument, but I'd like some other opinions.

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How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day?
I answer, that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it.
--Thoreau, "Civil Disobedience"
 
If you should ever have to stand before a jury after a questionable shooting, that sign may cause a jury to believe you were looking for an excuse to shoot. Maybe not, but why take the chance.

~Blades~
 
I would NOT put up signs like that. In the past I have done quite a bit of work with aggitation trained dogs and many of my associates had legal problems when BGs broke into thier yards or homes and were _subdued_ by the dog(s). One had signs that warned of an attack dog on duty, and had to show the judge that the dog was indeed controllable. I believe their was a civil action that followed in which he was found liable.

In California now (I know our politics are out there) their is a bill to ban assault dogs (!)...go figure.
 
Yes, I agree. Cut out the implied "rambo" threat and you may be OK, but use your lowest calibre firearm and one which doesn`t need pre-cleaning before use, then self-defence is more likely to succeed as it was on the spur of the moment and not premeditated ***. A"good" lawyer will always make mincemeat of you (at least in NSW - the worst Australian gun state), and our police would also charge you as a matter of course, with a string of charges too if you used (or threatened to use) any weapon on any intruder ! ***We had a local case where the intruder stated he was just wanting a drink of water when breaking in with a screwdriver at night.*** He was stabbed by the householder with it, but he was still charged by police in NSW..but acquitted but only after considerable $$ expence and mental anguish.
 
Coinneach - I think it is, indeed, ill advised to keep signs like that on your windows or doors. Signs similar to that or "Protected By Smith & Wesson", will make it harder to prove your case in the unlikely event you need to use your gun in defense of person or property.

Big B - What the hell is going on down there? Has everyone with the least bit of power lost their collective sense?

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Veni, Vidi, Pesci - I came, I saw, I moidered da bum
 
Sorry, Sorry. Double Double posted posted. :)

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited June 02, 1999).]
 
If attack dogs are banned in California, will Diane Feinstein (by ancestry) and Barbara Boxer (by name and ancestry) have to leave the state?
Heh, heh. Maybe we could get Ted Kennedy to give the "girls" a scenic ride by the beach! Bitches on the beaches?? (tacky. I'm just sooo tacky!)
 
I get a kick out of some of the signs--for example--a picture of a 1911 with the legend "I don't call 911"; however, I would never post one as it's a pretty safe bet you'll get sued should you ever have to defend yourself.
 
Coinneach:

Yes, take the sign out of the window. As others have said, it will compond the issue if you have to use your gun(s) to protect yourself. Not to mention that it lets the BG's know that there might be guns they could take if you're not home and they break in.

Just my $ 0.02 worth.

Jon...
 
Or, you could say, that those signs will certainly insure that you are never attacked...so you will not need to go to court.

It seems that everyone these days "plays lawyer" and tries to figure out what will happen in court, but I just never see it happen that way. I would like to see proof of things such that "if you carry a customized gun that it will be used against you", or "if you use reloads for defense it will be used against you" yadda yadda yadda. Everyone talks about it, but I never see it. I think people are overly paranoid about such things, myself. If you try to play lawyer, you can think of 1001 different ways to word things to make yourself look bad. That's what lawyers do. I say, keep your nose clean, play straight, only shoot when you HAVE to, and these pontificated court proceedings will never be an issue. If they do become an issue...the lawyers will find plenty to use against you no matter what you do. Do you carry hollowpoints? Extra mags? etc..

Besides...who ever said that keeping a gun in the home for defense against intruders (gasp!) was a crime? Why does everyone use the argument "I use my gun for target practice, but I just happened to have it and shot the guy in defense". What's wrong with having a gun for defense?
I bet that if you found a few cases where a gun owner was strung up for some little nuance like the fact that he used a cusomized gun, you could find 10-100 cases of gun owners that walked away fine using the same gun. We blow these things way out of proportion when we hear one or two stories (rumors).
If the case ever comes up, just hire a damn good lawyer...that's the best legal defense.


JMHO,
thaddeus
 
Guess what guys, you are going to get sued no matter waht. Throw them a bone, give them a red herring.. much better that they run with the obvious "He had a threatening sign" then they subpeona your posts at TFL :)

Afterall, how hard is it to expolain that the signs were a warning, not a threat ??

I think it is a bunch of hooey to think that you are in worse shape if you have those signs, or were wearing a Glock T-shirt, or used a "Magnum".. The DA is going to base his case (99%) on whether or not the Shooting was justifiable. You are going to get into civil court no matter what, unless the guy you kill has no family, which might be a safe bet. When you get to civil court the BG lawyer is going to try to rip you to shreads no matter what.

While your signs may be a little "aggressive", I don't think there would be anything wrong with something like:

"The occupants of this house believe in self-defense"

OTOH, you might not want to advertise that you have guns in your house, lest you ATTRACT the attention of that delivery-boy-burglar, jehovah's-witness-burglar or immigrant-lawn-care-specialist-burglar that just happens to walk by your front door and then waits until he knows the house is empty to make an easy score....
 
Some years ago, I had available in my store signs that said " This house is a gun free zone " with the international sign - a gun with a red slash thru it. I gave them away to anti gunners who sometimes wandered into my store. GLV
 
I just don't get it. If I place a sign that says "if you break the law by violating my home I will use my rights to defend my family and myself" in a humorous way I will be in trouble if I excercise my rights?
Kinda like deer camp: fence signs say the usual, no tresspassing violators will be prosecuted, further in the signs say violators will be persecuted and only a few further in say survivors will be thrown in the river. This doesn't slow our resident poacher down but it does give some of our guest a laugh.

Good Shooting, Hank
 
I don't know where ya'll are from, but here in CO we have a "make my day" law and if you have the signs up it HELPS in court. There was a legle warning posted. My sign reads "Dogs bite and owner shoots"

Rew
 
On The Other Other Hand, Think of how many people you might positively influence with your stickers. People who think only whackos have guns see your nice home, with cut grass, or nice car with a "I've got a gun, so back off, bud!" sticker on it.

You might get a few people thinking that maybe guns are Okay....

I gave up tactical adantage long ago, in favor of waering Polo shirts with Gun Logos and Gun hats, to show my pride as a responsible gun owner.
 
Coinneach, Rob: Read some of Mas Ayoob's comments from actual trials he's attended as an expert witness.

While to some degree it's a function of what state you live in, or what part of a state (west Texas is far different from anti-gun Austintatious) you're in, discretion is the better part of valor.

When an Alabama jury awards $4 million over a paint-job on a BMW; when an Amarillo jury finds an "unsafe design" in a 50-year old airplane: The world is nuts.

To a great extent, such lovely, apropos, informative signs are aid and comfort to the enemy!

Best regards, Art
 
I have a sign on my office door. "This property is protected by an armed Americam citizen. There is absolutly nothing here worth dying for".
So far it has worked.
Kit in AR
 
If Mas had his way, every gun owner would never let anyone know that they owned a gun and get their ammo from the same shipment as the local PD.

Tactically, those are great ideas, but we are ALL in a much more IMMEDIATE Political battle that we should fight out in the open, not like slinking snakes.

I agree with the No-Handloads rule of self defensive shooting, for various reasons, but I do not subscribe to a lot of the other non-confrontational, act like you aren't doing anything wrong, attitude. I do not believe that you should buy your defensive ammo and handgun based on how the jury will feel about them. I don't think you should avoid gun-talk, for fear that your co-workers will be called to testify in civil court about your "obsession." If you shoot someone who is breaking into your house, regardlesss of signs or state laws, you are not doing anything wrong.

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-Essayons
 
Naughty, naughty Dennis. Now let's be nice to Feinswine and Boxershorts.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I've taken down the signs.

I might be able to play off the "Hey, I warned the guy!" angle if it came down to that, and my landlord and neighbors thought it was OK, but... that would make sense, and our legal system doesn't work that way.

FWIW, Rew, I live in Colorado Springs. Yeah, we have the "Make My Day" law, but it doesn't work. You still have to spend yea bucks proving that the shooting was justifiable even if the guy kicked down your door and had a gun in his hand... just ask Gina Gershon.

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How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day?
I answer, that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it.
--Thoreau, "Civil Disobedience"
 
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