Among the top ten stupidest firearms stories I have heard

jimpeel

New member
First of all, it is a well known fact that the majority of firearms deaths are suicides.

Second, the highlighted paragraph may not be the stupidest on record; but it is ahead of whatever is in second place.

Besides the sheer stupidity of the statement itself, do the math:

Let us assume that the ~15,000 people who committed suicide lived in a single person home thus meaning that there were ~15,000 homes in which a suicide occurred.

Then take the 80,000,000 firearms owners and assume that they all live in four person households or 20,000,000 households.

How can this "study" spout that "three to five times more likely" crap?

<sigh>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_re_us/gun_deaths_suicide

By MIKE STOBBE, AP Medical Writer
Mon Jun 30, 9:18 PM ET

ATLANTA - The Supreme Court's landmark ruling on gun ownership last week focused on citizens' ability to defend themselves from intruders in their homes. But research shows that surprisingly often, gun owners use the weapons on themselves.

Suicides accounted for 55 percent of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year — gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40 percent of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 3 percent. The remaining 2 percent included legal killings, such as when police do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.

Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present, the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is much greater.

Studies have also shown that homes in which a suicide occurred were three to five times more likely to have a gun present than households that did not experience a suicide, even after accounting for other risk factors.

In a 5-4 decision, the high court on Thursday struck down a handgun ban enacted in the District of Columbia in 1976 and rejected requirements that firearms have trigger locks or be kept disassembled. The ruling left intact the district's licensing restrictions for gun owners.

One public-health study found that suicide and homicide rates in the district dropped after the ban was adopted. The district has allowed shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

The American Public Health Association, the American Association of Suicidology and two other groups filed a legal brief supporting the district's ban. The brief challenged arguments that if a gun is not available, suicidal people will just kill themselves using other means.

More than 90 percent of suicide attempts using guns are successful, while the success rate for jumping from high places was 34 percent. The success rate for drug overdose was 2 percent, the brief said, citing studies.

"Other methods are not as lethal," said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.

The high court's majority opinion made no mention of suicide. But in a dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer used the word 14 times in voicing concern about the impact of striking down the handgun ban.

"If a resident has a handgun in the home that he can use for self-defense, then he has a handgun in the home that he can use to commit suicide or engage in acts of domestic violence," Breyer wrote.

Researchers in other fields have raised questions about the public-health findings on guns.

Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal attack.

Public-health experts have said the telephone survey methodology Kleck used likely resulted in an overestimate.

Both sides agree there has been a significant decline in the last decade in public-health research into gun violence.

The CDC traditionally was a primary funder of research on guns and gun-related injuries, allocating more than $2.1 million a year to such projects in the mid-1990s.

But the agency cut back research on the subject after Congress in 1996 ordered that none of the CDC's appropriations be used to promote gun control.

Vernick said the Supreme Court decision underscores the need for further study into what will happen to suicide and homicide rates in the district when the handgun ban is lifted.

Today, the CDC budgets less than $900,000 for firearm-related projects, and most of it is spent to track statistics. The agency no longer funds gun-related policy analysis.
 
just more garbage put out to sway public opinion:barf:


the job of the SCOTUS is to interpet the law and compare it to the Constitution not prevent suicides

why didn't people comit suicide with the shotguns and rifles they had, they were too lazy to put the gun together first:rolleyes:
 
%$#@ does this stuff make me mad.

I have only one point to make:

I am F A R more concerned about affording people who WANT to live the ability to protect their family and life, than I am with people who actually want to die. Ask the next woman who is brutally raped with no method of defense if she cares how many people offed themselves with guns in 2005.
 
That is because of the sheer number of firearms. One could just as easily conclude that a home containing a suicide victim is 10 times as likely to contain a television set. That certainly does not indicate that television causes suicide.

They are trying to indicate that guns cause suicide, and this is faulty logic. Correlation does not prove causation.
 
They are trying to indicate that guns cause suicide, and this is faulty logic. Correlation does not prove causation

This is just crap logic and math from antis.

Sadly, in the past 18 months, I am aware of 4 suicides within my circle of friends and family.. Two of them were gun and two of them were by hanging.

I'd like to see the percentage of suicides by hanging and the correlation between having ropes, belts or extentions cords in the home. I'm sure with the right math we could prove a direct causation between having any of those items in your home and an increase in hanging suicides.
 
That is because of the sheer number of firearms. One could just as easily conclude that a home containing a suicide victim is 10 times as likely to contain a television set. That certainly does not indicate that television causes suicide.
One could make a plausible argument that a TV set in the home is a much bigger contributor to suicides than a gun. People don't kill themselves simply because a gun is present; they kill themselves because they figure that life is no longer worth living. The mere presence of a gun in the home doesn't cause such depression. However, if a vulnerable person watches a lot of television, he or she could become depressed rather easily. TV news programs pump out a continuing stream of stories about crime, betrayal, and hazards to your health. TV programs and ads bombard young girls with the idea that they are too fat or otherwise imperfect.

My guess is that nearly 100% of suicides at home occur in homes that have TV sets, far more than there are homes with guns. And I would not be surprised to find out that television contributes to depression.

Depression is what kills. It causes the decision to kill oneself or to go on a sucide rampage, killing others before killing yourself so as to make the news. Guns, knives, ropes, etc. are simply tools to carry out a decision.
 
Gee, how come the Japanese have a much higher suicide rate than the US does? After all, we have lots of guns in civilian hands and they have very few guns in civilian hands. Yet, their suicide rate is at least 1.5 times as high as the US. Russia also has a very high suicide rate.

This is just more picking and choosing of statistics and data which "tend" to show that the anti gunners are on to some sort of phenomena associated with gun ownership.

What I'd like to see is the level of suicide rates in Washington, D.C. vs. a city like Minneapolis, for instance.
 
I did some searching on suicides for US cities and found this:

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/wk/mm4634.pdf

This is also done by the CDC. I have to admit that Washington, D.C. does have a lower suicide rate than Minnesota, but it doesn't break down the numbers for Minneapolis. According to this study/report, Washington, D.C. has one of the lowest suicide rates in the nation. Is this just because they have banned guns? If you read some of the study, that may have had some effect, but cannot account for all of it. There are many factors that affect suicide rates, according to this study.

Still, looking at Japan or Russia which have higher suicide rates than the US does, causes one to ponder whether it's more related to gun ownership or other social factors.
 
LOL @ Washington D.C. having the lowest suicide rate (but one of the highest murder rates in the nation. **shakes head**) Sorry, I know suicide isnt funny, hits way too close to home, way too many times, but if someone wants to take their own life, they will do it, no matter what outlet they choose to use, whether it be a firearm, a rope, pills... This is just a ploy by the anti-gun groups with the help of the media (as usual) to push the gun control issue. Hell since the SCOTUS ruled in favor of gun rights, I have already heard on the news comments of police in D.C. that they think that the crime rate will lower drastically since the Average Joe can own firearms in the city now... But the suicide rate will probably climb... :rolleyes:
 
I'm reminded of those immortal words of old Sam Clemens ( Mark Twain),
" There are three kinds of lies, lies, damn lies and statistics."




First of all, it is a well known fact that the majority of firearms deaths are suicides.

Second, the highlighted paragraph may not be the stupidest on record; but it is ahead of whatever is in second place.

Besides the sheer stupidity of the statement itself, do the math:

Let us assume that the ~15,000 people who committed suicide lived in a single person home thus meaning that there were ~15,000 homes in which a suicide occurred.

Then take the 80,000,000 firearms owners and assume that they all live in four person households or 20,000,000 households.

How can this "study" spout that "three to five times more likely" crap?

<sigh>
 
I think it's water. Yes, water. H2O.

There are irrefutable studies that show that 100%, ALL, of the people who commit suicide, ingest water within 24 hours before the suicide.

Very simple, ban water, no suicides.
 
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