I am trying to figure out what the benefits are for different types of bullet weights. For self defense, is it more effective to have a heavier weight bullet ex: 147gr which has a slightly slower velocity and muzzle energy, or is it more effective to have a lighter bullet, ex: 115gr with a higher velocity and higher muzzle energy rating. This question pertains to all different types of ammo but for my specific case, 9mm ammo being fired from a usp compact.
ammunition weights
- Thread starter microtech
- Start date
microtech,
Your question has been the subject of perhaps millions of words in debates over several decades.
At one time the general rule was heavier bullets penetrate more than lighter bullets. Advances in bullet design now allow bullet designers to produce a bullet of just about any weight they want for a given caliber to penetrate in test media to a depth they want for a given impact velocity.
In the 9mm parabellum there are standard pressure loads, +P and +p+ which complicate the matter a bit.
Assuming that you can discern which bullets penetrate to a depth that you feel is sufficient (whatever that depth may be 10", 15", or more), then pick the one which is most reliable, accurate and controllable in your gun. Shot placement is of prime importance in causing blood loss which is the major cause of incapacitation of a human threat.
carguychris
New member
The basics:
Lighter bullets go faster, so they expand better when they hit something soft.
All bullets go faster from a longer barrel.* Therefore, a lighter bullet is generally better from a short barrel, because it's more likely to reach a velocity that will guarantee expansion.
Heavier bullets penetrate better because they have more momentum.
Heavier bullets generally create more recoil, but this is somewhat dependent on the particular load.
+P and +P+ loads increase velocity at the cost of greater recoil and increased wear to the firearm.
Don't read too much into factory kinetic energy figures. Some loads perform better or worse than their energy figures would suggest. Furthermore, many ammo makers run the tests using barrels longer than what most people will ever use for CCW (6"-9"+) because they know that buyers are impressed by big numbers.
IMHO it's better to ignore the numbers and look for actual ballistic gelatin tests, or conduct your own tests using a media such as wet newspaper.
*This is only true up to a practical limit, but you generally won't reach that limit with most commonplace pistol cartridges from a pistol-length barrel.
Lighter bullets go faster, so they expand better when they hit something soft.
All bullets go faster from a longer barrel.* Therefore, a lighter bullet is generally better from a short barrel, because it's more likely to reach a velocity that will guarantee expansion.
Heavier bullets penetrate better because they have more momentum.
Heavier bullets generally create more recoil, but this is somewhat dependent on the particular load.
+P and +P+ loads increase velocity at the cost of greater recoil and increased wear to the firearm.
Don't read too much into factory kinetic energy figures. Some loads perform better or worse than their energy figures would suggest. Furthermore, many ammo makers run the tests using barrels longer than what most people will ever use for CCW (6"-9"+) because they know that buyers are impressed by big numbers.
IMHO it's better to ignore the numbers and look for actual ballistic gelatin tests, or conduct your own tests using a media such as wet newspaper.*This is only true up to a practical limit, but you generally won't reach that limit with most commonplace pistol cartridges from a pistol-length barrel.
oneounceload
Moderator
Personally, I would not use the 147 in a small handgun. It is designed for larger guns, SMG, etc. I have found the 124 grain to be an ideal weight for velocity, penetration and expansion. I'm not using ballisitic gel, just the typical wet phone books, etc. but it seems to do well
#18indycolts
Moderator
after reading tests, the 147 grain 9mm HST performed extremely well. I'm a huge fan of heavy and slow because a lot of the time higher speed actually decreases penetration.
Some understanding of Physics is necessary to fully grasp the light and fast vs. heavy and slow argument. Velocity is the most efficient means of achieving energy but Newton states that every action has an equal but opposite reaction. Basically the harder the bullet strikes the target, the harder the target pushes back against the bullet thereby working against penetration. If penetration is what you're looking for, then looking at a bullet's momentum is more useful. Mass and velocity have equal effect on momentum so a heavier, slower projectile with the same energy as a lighter, faster one will typically penetrate more because it likely has more momentum. Likewise, a heavier, slower projectile with the same momentum as a lighter, faster one will typically penetrate better because it has less energy and therefore less resistance. The wrench in the works is that while energy often works against penetration, it is helpful to expansion and tissue damage. The key is finding a good balance between energy and penetration because while a bullet with a lot of energy that expands aggressively but penetrates little is not preferable, neither is one that penetrates well but does not have enough energy to reliably expand and thusly does little tissue damage other than boring a relatively small hole. In 9mm, I think that the 124-127grn bullets at velocities in excess of 1200fps give the best balance between the two.
golfnutrlv
New member
Federal HST 124 Gr 9mm is my preferred carry loading. IMO, this is the best combination of stopping power, penatration, and not over penatration that you can get in a 9mm. The HST projectile is a ton better looking that others I have seen.
Try it out if you can find any. Its tough to find usually.
Try it out if you can find any. Its tough to find usually.
NightSight
New member
Microtech,
Welcome to the forum!! I have not been here for long, but this is what I have learned. You just started one of the threads that ought not ever be brought up!
Other do not's:
Glock vs. Sig. vs. XD, et. al.
.45 vs. .40. vs. 9mm, et. al.
polymer vs. steel frame
pistol and revolver debate
safe room vs. search for bad guy
etc., etc., etc.,
There are more, but I'm sure you get the idea.
Welcome to the forum!! I have not been here for long, but this is what I have learned. You just started one of the threads that ought not ever be brought up!
Other do not's:
Glock vs. Sig. vs. XD, et. al.
.45 vs. .40. vs. 9mm, et. al.
polymer vs. steel frame
pistol and revolver debate
safe room vs. search for bad guy
etc., etc., etc.,
There are more, but I'm sure you get the idea.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Yes.microtech said:
Seriously, that's a matter of constant debate, and there are theories on each side. Based on all I've read and my training, I take the following view of things:
[1] There is no magic bullet.
[2] Shot placement is king.
[3] One particular set up (faster, light bullet) may work a little better than another (slower, heavier bullet) under one set of circumstances. And then again another set up might be better yet under different circumstances. But you can not know in advance exactly what the circumstances of you nasty encounter, if any, will be. So everything is going to be a compromise.
[4] Therefore, I am generally comfortable with any available, good quality, commercial JHP ammunition from a reputable maker as long as I've confirmed personally that it functions reliably in my gun and that I can shoot it accurately in my gun.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Well my personal favorites are "full length guide rod, threat or menace" and "slingshot or slide stop to drop the slide."
The Federal 115gr JHP is an excellent compromise between recoil, feeding reliability, expansion and stopping power plus is easy on the gun since it's not +P. It has a good long history as an excellent law enforcement load.
At one time it was the undisputed champ but now heavier bullets with +P or +P+ loads can do very well. But in a lightweight short barrel gun it's hard to beat the proven 115 JHP.
At one time it was the undisputed champ but now heavier bullets with +P or +P+ loads can do very well. But in a lightweight short barrel gun it's hard to beat the proven 115 JHP.
You will quickly learn if you read these threads long enough that all such questions invite answers that are prejudices masquarading as truths. There's an old adage that applies here: "Believe nothing of what you hear (or read) and half of what you, see..." except this, which is the real truth: All 9mm's suck...really, truly, genuinely suck...except for the 9x18 Makarov round, which is marvelous, simply mavelous.
You do know not everything is on the internet?
My 'link' is in person; my 'data' comes from people who shoot people.
You might find some cogent cognizant results if you search "357 SIG shootings" and "Texas DPS shootings" and "New Hampshire State Police shootings" and "US Border Patrol shootings" and "Illinois State Police shootings" and the like.
Or generate 'data' of your own.
Or make friends with people who shoot people. Or make their ammo.....
Or not.
My 'link' is in person; my 'data' comes from people who shoot people.
You might find some cogent cognizant results if you search "357 SIG shootings" and "Texas DPS shootings" and "New Hampshire State Police shootings" and "US Border Patrol shootings" and "Illinois State Police shootings" and the like.
Or generate 'data' of your own.
Or make friends with people who shoot people. Or make their ammo.....
Or not.
heavier bullet at lower velocities or lighter bullet at higher velocities,debatable on which is better of a man stopper,but,I guarantee there is a huge difference on what your gun will shoot better,resulting in a better hit resulting in a faster stop.For me,my snub nose shoots .38spls 158 grain perfect,but the 125 grain are all high.