ammunition power

N

Newton24b

Moderator
we all like to talk about how companies and lawyers have doctored down ammunition over the years. i have a jpeg of a poster for the smith and wesson 1917 revolver in 45acp.

in the ammunition category it gives specificatiosn for the ammuntion

230 gr fmj
chamber pressure: 19,000psi
velocity: 885 fps + or - 25fps measured 25.5 feet from muzzle
source" www.nicolausassociates.com open source dod materials

kinda makes you wonder, most fmj i can find on the shelf barely makes that from a full size 1911 at the muzzle
 
A few thoughts:

1) While the 1917, as a revolver, does have a B/C gap, it also has a 6" barrel. Not too surprising that it gets decent velocity. (I have a Colt 1917.)

2) 230 at 890 a hard thumper? Subjective. Depends in part on the weight and fit of the gun, but mostly on the shooter. In .45acp, I normally shoot full-power ammo at the range.

3) Reduced power ammo has probably grown popular for three reasons;
a) Less powder allows incremental cost reduction to manufacturers;
b) Less pressure allows reduced likelihood of damage to weapons and shooters, and reduces potential liability to manufacturers; and
c) Shooters who compete in gaming sports prefer the least power level that makes major power, cycles the gun reliably, and shoots accurately; anything more provides no advantage at a game, and in fact increases split times.
 
Another thing to remember is that as chronographs have become cheaper, better, and more widely available published velocities have also been inching downward. Manufacturers do not inflate their velocity figures today like they have in the past because anybody with an extra couple hundred dollars to spend on a chronograph can check velocities himself.
 
Another thing to consider....

Is the modern electronic age, and the tools available today. Back then, pressure was a best guess estimate, based on things like primer appearance, case head expansion, and the rare "pressure gun" used by labs and ammo makers to test loads with, generally using the copper (or lead) crusher method.

Today we have better instruments, and get more precise readings. And, surprise! Some of our old standbys actualy read above the industry standards/max! SO, to keep within the already established pressure limits, loads can get reduced.

Original GI specs for the 230gr ball .45acp round were 850fps +/-30fps and individual guns of the same barrel lengths can vary 50fps or more on top of the shot to shot variation possible from the ammo itself.

Don't get hung up on a few fps difference.
 
Have to differ a little with 44 AMP's numbers. While in Vietnam I saw a spec sheet for military Ball. It said: 830 fps +- 15 fps. That means a 230g FMJ from 815-845 fps was within MilSpec. I load my own ammo to the 230@830 level from a 5" Government Model.

Oh, and MLeake the 1917 barrels are 5.5" not 6".

Dave
 
The maximum chamber pressure for a .45 ACP is only 21,000, so I don't think .45 ACP is loaded weaker than it used to be. On the other hand, some other, early cartridges are supposed to have been, most notably the .38 ACP, which while still available, was essentially replaced by the .38 Super. Odd that the .38 Super and .38 ACP have identical dimensions.

On the other hand, I think lighter loads have been produced because the sorts of handguns people insist on having in some calibers has made them want a lighter load for their 22 ounce handgun. The original .357 was a large frame revolver; today it is available in their small frame revolvers. On top of that, S&W introduced a mid-sized L-frame revolver to be able to stand up better to constant use with .357 magnum rounds, then eventually started producing seven round cylinders.

However, pressure is what it is all about and sometimes a lower pressure load will give a higher velocity.
 
Have to differ a little with 44 AMP's numbers. While in Vietnam I saw a spec sheet for military Ball. It said: 830 fps +- 15 fps. That means a 230g FMJ from 815-845 fps was within MilSpec. I load my own ammo to the 230@830 level from a 5" Government Model.
Click to expand...

I have Clausen's book of the 45 ACP. The 1910 specs in that book are a 230 FMJ at 800 fps.

Old pistols will be beat out of time using what are +P ACP loads. Modern 45AR revolvers probably won't have an issue. Really old M1911's are not to be fired with any thing on the top end of a 45 ACP. Early M1911's were not heat treated, the steel is dead soft.

I had a series 80 frame peen out on a Colt Combat Elite. The problem was early unlock. My self imposed limits are a 230 grain less than or equal to 800 fps. I have some 700 fps loads that are very accurate.

I only carry factory loads for self defense. At $25.00 a box I seldom shoot that stuff at the range.
 
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