Ammo - +P vs +P+
- Thread starter Ronin 99
- Start date
To my understanding +P is the only technically correct designation based on precise pressure limits. +P+ refers to either loads with higher pressures than that or to +P loads that the manufacturer wants to restrict to law enforcement only. That`s why some +P ammo can be hotter than certain +P+ ammo. Marcus
BrokenArrow
New member
The designation has to do with pressure, not velocity. Higher pressure usually means higher velocity, but not always. Why some +P loads are faster than some +P+ loads.
The SAAMI (USA) std pressure limit is 35,000 psi. The +P limit is up to 38,500 psi. Some call anything over that +P+, but there is no official SAAMI designation as such. Some European spec (CIP) and NATO ammo can get up to 42,000 psi. The Rem 115 +P+ the Secret Service used maxed at 42,000 psi. Winchester's NATO loads max at 42,000 psi. US M882 ammo is around 36,250 (about SAAMI +P).
I've seen the Rem and Fed 115 +P+ do 1260 fps from SIGs, and the WIN 124 NATO about 1180 fps. The Rem 124 +P GS about 1180, the Fed 124 +P+ HS 1170. The Speer 124 +P Gold Dot from a High Power did 1260 fps.
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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 25, 2000).]
The SAAMI (USA) std pressure limit is 35,000 psi. The +P limit is up to 38,500 psi. Some call anything over that +P+, but there is no official SAAMI designation as such. Some European spec (CIP) and NATO ammo can get up to 42,000 psi. The Rem 115 +P+ the Secret Service used maxed at 42,000 psi. Winchester's NATO loads max at 42,000 psi. US M882 ammo is around 36,250 (about SAAMI +P).
I've seen the Rem and Fed 115 +P+ do 1260 fps from SIGs, and the WIN 124 NATO about 1180 fps. The Rem 124 +P GS about 1180, the Fed 124 +P+ HS 1170. The Speer 124 +P Gold Dot from a High Power did 1260 fps.
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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited May 25, 2000).]
Will Beararms
New member
Simplify your life and choose the .45ACP. 
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited May 26, 2000).]
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited May 26, 2000).]
Make it even simpler...shoot a .357mag. Don't care bout case length, don't care bout bullet shape. Put 115gr out at 600fps or put 200gr out at 1335fps, or 125 out at 1800fps.
Agree with Brokenarrow re pressure bein the criteria for +P., not velocity with a given slug. Powder burn rate makes a big difference in pressure.
Example of pressure and velocity not being all that related.
200gr, 5.5gr 321 powder, 1060fps, 42,500 pres.
200gr, 12.4gr 296 powder, 1335fps, 35,000 pres.
( from current Winchester loading data )
Sam
Agree with Brokenarrow re pressure bein the criteria for +P., not velocity with a given slug. Powder burn rate makes a big difference in pressure.
Example of pressure and velocity not being all that related.
200gr, 5.5gr 321 powder, 1060fps, 42,500 pres.
200gr, 12.4gr 296 powder, 1335fps, 35,000 pres.
( from current Winchester loading data )
Sam
Will Beararms
New member
Sam:
Funny you should mention the .357 Magnum. After years of wandering in the Gun Rag Wilderness, I only have pistols chambered for .357 Magnum or .45 ACP. Either is an excellent choice and both are time-proven w/o quirks.
Ever noticed that you don't have to justify either choice in your mind's eye when pondering their fight-stopping effectiveness?
I'll take six .357 Magnums with three or four Bianchi speed strips at the ready any day over 15 9mm rounds.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Funny you should mention the .357 Magnum. After years of wandering in the Gun Rag Wilderness, I only have pistols chambered for .357 Magnum or .45 ACP. Either is an excellent choice and both are time-proven w/o quirks.
Ever noticed that you don't have to justify either choice in your mind's eye when pondering their fight-stopping effectiveness?
I'll take six .357 Magnums with three or four Bianchi speed strips at the ready any day over 15 9mm rounds.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Will, we are a dying breed.
For years I carried and used issue 1911s, loved them. Without a .45 at this time but will probably ( hopefully ) correct this with a SIG 220. Buddy has 220 and it feeds full wadcutters. .45 comes pre-expanded.
Did an IDPA match not long ago with 686 2.5" ( my normal carry ), minimum of 198 rounds for the course, I used 199. Every steel knock down went down hard. Saw some of em gettin several hits with little guns before they fell. Didn't place well, slow. I am in my seventh decade of shootin handguns. Often carry two speedloaders and two strips. +P+ must be for little guns tryin to do big guns job.
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Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
For years I carried and used issue 1911s, loved them. Without a .45 at this time but will probably ( hopefully ) correct this with a SIG 220. Buddy has 220 and it feeds full wadcutters. .45 comes pre-expanded.
Did an IDPA match not long ago with 686 2.5" ( my normal carry ), minimum of 198 rounds for the course, I used 199. Every steel knock down went down hard. Saw some of em gettin several hits with little guns before they fell. Didn't place well, slow. I am in my seventh decade of shootin handguns. Often carry two speedloaders and two strips. +P+ must be for little guns tryin to do big guns job.
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Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
Does anyone know if anybody makes factory .40 S&W +p loads?
Will Beararms
New member
Sam:
I hope the Lord allows me to shoot as long! The P220 is has a baby-bottom smooth trigger and it the most accurate stock DA .45ACP I have ever had the privilege to own. I also have a P97 Ruger that is no slouch and a joy to shoot.
I like your take on the +P+ situation-------quite logical.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
I hope the Lord allows me to shoot as long! The P220 is has a baby-bottom smooth trigger and it the most accurate stock DA .45ACP I have ever had the privilege to own. I also have a P97 Ruger that is no slouch and a joy to shoot.
I like your take on the +P+ situation-------quite logical.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Will, you will if you have the will.
Beemerb has a 220 that I have shot. Love it.
We shoot each others stuff quite a bit. He don't miss with anything and he is nuther seven decade shooter. We are both crusty ol farts and since hardly anyone else will put up with me, we hang together.
Sam
Beemerb has a 220 that I have shot. Love it.
We shoot each others stuff quite a bit. He don't miss with anything and he is nuther seven decade shooter. We are both crusty ol farts and since hardly anyone else will put up with me, we hang together.
Sam
Hey Onslaught,
Just picked up some Remington Golden Saber 124gr +P HPs. Are those the ones you're talking about? I've tried Triton Hi-Vel 115gr +Ps and Cor-Bon 115 +Ps in my K9. Like the Cor-Bon better. Trying something a little heavier with the GSs. Going out to find a goat.
Ronin
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NRA/GOA
Just picked up some Remington Golden Saber 124gr +P HPs. Are those the ones you're talking about? I've tried Triton Hi-Vel 115gr +Ps and Cor-Bon 115 +Ps in my K9. Like the Cor-Bon better. Trying something a little heavier with the GSs. Going out to find a goat.
Ronin
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NRA/GOA
Will Beararms
New member
Ronin:
Goto www.greent.com and click on Calibers. You will find some interesting info on the 9mm. I think you are right on track with the 9mm 124 GS. Meanwhile, I'll keep shooting my .357's and .45's and working through the throbbing hands after each 200+ round range trip.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Goto www.greent.com and click on Calibers. You will find some interesting info on the 9mm. I think you are right on track with the 9mm 124 GS. Meanwhile, I'll keep shooting my .357's and .45's and working through the throbbing hands after each 200+ round range trip.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."