Ammo for J.P. Sauer Colt .45

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famous_blue_raincoat

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I just inherited two revolvers from my dad who passed away in September--a J. P. Sauer Colt .45 (long) SAA and a H & R 9-shot revolver .22 (LR). I'm not sure of the model # of the .22 (and I have not yet had the guns shipped to me). Both guns date from about 1973. I am wondering if either gun will take a short round, but am of course more concerned about the .45, given the price of the long .45 ammo. My use for both guns will be largely target, so I am wondering what would be the most cost-effective ammo I could use in either. Also, does anyone know if the .22 might be chambered also for .22 magnum? Thanks in advance for any advice!

The Harrington and Richardson .22 looks exactly like the one in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmbQZeoxfyY
 
You have a couple of good, usable revolvers there.

The H&R is not a magnum. It should handle 22 shorts, longs, and long rifles just fine.

For the Sauer I would try Winchester's USA cowboy action 45 Colt load.
 
The J.P. Sauer gun is as rugged as a Ruger Vaquero, built like a tank. There is no other round in .45 other than the .45 S&W, which most folks refer to as the .45 Schofield nowadays, that will chamber in your Sauer Single Action.

However, there is a plethora of remanufactured .45 Colt ammunition that is available at bargain prices.

As a matter of interest, what is the brand name of your J.P. Sauer revolver? I have a .357 Magnum under the name of Hy Hunter.

Here is my .357 after doing a little work. I removed the zinc alloy (ZAMAK) trigger guard and backstrap and plastic grips. The trigger guard is from Uberti, the backstrap is from a Hawes, home made walnut grips:




Bob Wright
 
famous blue raincoat said:
Thanks so much for the replies Sarge, g.willikers, and Bob. Bob, the Sauer is one imported by Hawes. Your .357 is beautiful. Thanks for posting the pic!
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Hy Hunter was associated with Great Western, and as Great Western's light dimmed with the Gun Control of 1968, Hy Hunter went to Germany where he took a Great Western Single Action for a pattern. J'P. Sauer & Sohn, of Suhl, Germany began production of these Single Actions. When Hunter left the firearms field, the Hawes company was formed to continue the importation of these guns. When Sauer decided to get out of the SA revolver production, they sold the machinery to Weirich, who, so far as I know, continue to produce revolvers under the Hawes name.

Bob Wright
 
g. willikers said:
There is really no round called the Colt .45 long.
Here's an explanation as to why:
http://www.funarg.org/r2/notes/longcolt.html
The .22 Magnum is a very different round than the .22 rimfire and not meant to be used with the rimfire cylinder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Wi...Magnum_Rimfire
Hope this helps.
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I have one specimen of a short .45 Colt round. This was produced by REM-UMC around the WW I period, using the .45 S&W case and the 250 gr. RN.45 Colt bullet. The primer is nickeled, indication, for that period, loaded with smokeless powder. Apparently an attempt to minimize inventory. To its left is a .45 Colt Government round, which is the same as the .45 S&W. Legend has it that with this round so marked, Colt would not have to roll mark their revolvers as taking the ".45 S&W Cartridge."



Headstamps of the above cartridges:



Incidentally, during that period, copper primers indicated black powder loading, brass primers indicated semi-smokeless powder, and nickel primers indicated smokeless powder.


Bob Wright
 
Hy Hunter was associated with Great Western, and as Great Western's light dimmed with the Gun Control of 1968, Hy Hunter went to Germany where he took a Great Western Single Action for a pattern. J'P. Sauer & Sohn, of Suhl, Germany began production of these Single Actions. When Hunter left the firearms field, the Hawes company was formed to continue the importation of these guns. When Sauer decided to get out of the SA revolver production, they sold the machinery to Weirich, who, so far as I know, continue to produce revolvers under the Hawes name.

Bob Wright
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Weihrauch makes the Bounty Hunter for EAA and aside from its transfer bar and squarish trigger guard, it could pass for a Sauer's twin brother. Pretty decent revolver too. The one in the linked article has .454 throats. I had a single JP Sauer 45 Colt, decades ago, but I'm almost certain that one had .454 throats as well.
 
The term "45 Long Colt" was used by the military in the late 19th century to differentiate between the 45 Colt ammo for the Colt SAA and the shorter 45 Schofield ammo. Eventually the Army only purchased and distributed the Schofield ammo to make logistics easier. It meant soldiers carrying the SAA were using less powerful ammo.

I recall factory ammo in boxes printed "45 Long Colt" in the 1950s and 1960s when I was young. But "Long Colt" grates on some people and today most just say 45 Colt without the Long. I have, however, seen at least one brand of recently made ammo still labeled "45 Long Colt."

Never heard of "45 Long."
 
I had a Sauer 44 magnum SA revolver which I eventually gave to my FiL. It looked like it had been shot a lot when I got it. I shot it quite a bit. So does my FiL. I don't think they wear out easily. It is a quality revolver.
 
As far as I can determine, the Army issued .45 revolver cartridges of the "Schofield" length almost from the first use of the S&W revolver in 1874. From that point on, no ".45 Colt" length (1.26") cartridges were made or issued by the Army for use in the SAA Colt or the S&W. The Army designated the round as the Cartridge, Revolver, Ball, Caliber .45; and never made any distinction between ammunition to be used in the Colt SAA and the S&W Schofield. The term "long Colt" may have been used by civilians, as it was later to distinguish the .45 Colt from the .45 ACP, but it was not an Army term.

Jim
 
Ain't revolvers nice.
Shorter rounds will fit longer chambers.
I too, once had a Hawes in .44 mag/44spl.
An excellent gun all around.
 
The term "45 Long Colt" was used by the military in the late 19th century to differentiate between the 45 Colt ammo for the Colt SAA and the shorter 45 Schofield ammo. Eventually the Army only purchased and distributed the Schofield ammo to make logistics easier. It meant soldiers carrying the SAA were using less powerful ammo.

I recall factory ammo in boxes printed "45 Long Colt" in the 1950s and 1960s when I was young. But "Long Colt" grates on some people...
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People who are unaware of the actual history you've mentioned and are pedantic enough to give other people a hard time about it.

I have, however, seen at least one brand of recently made ammo still labeled "45 Long Colt."
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HSM, Big Bear, Armscor and Fiocchi all sell ammo marked on the box as "45 Long Colt". In addition the abbreviation 45LC for the round is common.









 
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As far as I can determine, the Army issued .45 revolver cartridges of the "Schofield" length almost from the first use of the S&W revolver in 1874. From that point on, no ".45 Colt" length (1.26") cartridges were made or issued by the Army for use in the SAA Colt or the S&W. The Army designated the round as the Cartridge, Revolver, Ball, Caliber .45; and never made any distinction between ammunition to be used in the Colt SAA and the S&W Schofield. The term "long Colt" may have been used by civilians, as it was later to distinguish the .45 Colt from the .45 ACP, but it was not an Army term.
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Howdy

My middle name is Pedantic and I am proud of it.

James K is correct, however the 'Schofield' cartridge and Schofield revolver first shipped in 1875, not 1874. I have a First Model Schofield that Roy Jinks has verified was among the first 3000 shipped to the National Armory, now known as the Springfield Armory, on July 12, 1875. The Army designation for the cartridge was Revolver, Ball Cartridge, Caliber .45, M1875.

Ammunition companies can print whatever they like on their boxes, but if you look in the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) website you will see no mention of a cartridge named 45 Long Colt. The official name of the cartridge according to SAAMI, the body that governs these things, is 45 Colt.

This photo shows two 45 Colt and two 45 Schofield cartridges. The two brass cased cartridges on the outside of the photo are modern reloads of the 45 Colt and 45 Schofield rounds. The two copper cased rounds in the center are the original Benet primed versions of the same cartridges.

45%20colt%2045%20colt%2045%20schofield%20benet%20primed%2045%20schofield%20enhanced_zps6qf0239u.jpg




The Benet primed 45 Colt round came from this box that shipped from the Frankford Arsenal in 1874. The Schofield round probably shipped around 1875.

45ColtBenetPrimedBox02_zps0e1df06e.jpg
 
My middle name is Pedantic and I am proud of it.
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The all important first step is to recognize the problem. The second step is to try to find the courage to do something about it. ;)

Ammunition companies can print whatever they like on their boxes, but if you look in the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) website you will see no mention of a cartridge named 45 Long Colt. The official name of the cartridge according to SAAMI, the body that governs these things, is 45 Colt.
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True. But the official SAAMI name for the ammunition used in original Garands is 30-06 Springfield. Do you rush in every time someone refers to their rifle as a 30-06 and inform them that there is no such round?

Calling the cartridge formally known as 45 Colt as 45 Long Colt has a legitimate origin, 141 years of precedent and is readily understood by everyone. If you must display your superior knowledge, save your energy for those who refer to a magazine as a "clip". :rolleyes:
 
Long story made short.

Wife's uncle inherited a BUNCH of gun stuff from a business client. Lots of 1850-1925 era material. Original guns, ammo, boxes, etc. One item was a wooden shipping crate for 5,000 rounds of revolver ammo stenciled US ARMY...45 LONG COLT. No idea on the date of the box.

"Long Colt" likely never was an official title. But it was used by military suppliers at least for a while. The correct term always has been 45 Colt but the Long Colt has been and continues to be used in some circles. I prefer 45 Colt. I think it is correct. But I am not concerned if someone says Long Colt and I do feel the need to point out the fact that the term has been used.
 
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