ammo for a damascus parker bros??

T

Topaz

Inactive
I've been told there are safe low pressure loads for damascus steel barreled guns available. How and where?? Are they blackpowder or smokeless? I paid a fortune for restoring this beauty and would love to shoot it if safely able to do so. Hindsight being 20-20 I should have stoked it up with baby mags before paying to refinish it tucked it behind a tree with rope to both triggers and given it a "pressure test"!!! Anyone know anything about these loads I sure would love to hear about them. 12 ga. 2-3/4"
 
Damascus steel is made by braiding together "ribbons" of steel and then forge welding them together around a mandrel. The warning from years ago was: There are forge welded joints that cannot be seen with visual inspection that may not be continuous resulting in internal areas that are slowly rusting away the metal. That which passes pressure testing previously, may not always continue to maintain its strength. Some old timers concluded that Damascus barrels are an explosion waiting to happen...they did not recommend shootings such guns even with "appropriate loads." How much are your body parts worth to you?
 
Less and less as the years go by!!! So I should let my wife take the first couple shots?? They (the barrels) look flawless and could be lined to accept 20 ga. tubes but it would effect the balance of course and also
$600 from my wallet.
 
Greetings Topaz, and welcome aboard,

I haven't noticed "Damascus" loads in some time; but, I haven't been looking. I suspect the legal eagles have counseled the ammo manufacturers against making them because of potential liability issues.

 I like the liner ideal. You might ask Jess Briley about some light weight shorty tubes.
 
IF a gunsmith has blessed your gun as safe, try Polywad or RST for low pressure loads for vintage guns. If as is, it is not safe, getting it sleeved will let you shoot it with those loads. But, as mentioned, the chambers need to be determined.....you NEVER want to shoot 2-3/4 in 2-1/2 chambers......only bad things can happen from that.

Good luck and have fun
 
"IF a gunsmith has blessed your gun as safe, try Polywad or RST for low pressure loads for vintage guns."

No smokeless powder load, even the low-pressure offerings, are safe to shoot in a Damascus gun.
 
No smokeless powder load, even the low-pressure offerings, are safe to shoot in a Damascus gun.
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That is not necessarily true. As someone mentioned above, the folks at doublegunshop.com do it all the time, using very low pressure loads - they would be able to best answer the question for the right load to use
 
wow , you guys are full of it... information that is, thanks for all of it and I 'm checking out the double guns forums see if I can shoot some birds with gramp's shotgun in Ks this year.
 
Some folks do shoot selected Damascus barrelled shotguns with low pressure loads. A couple of years back, one of those optimists had their gun blow up on them at a major shoot. It proved fatal to both shotgun and shooter.

In England, some old barrels have been reproofed and found to be sound.

Shotguns and grenades have similar working pressures.

IMO, Life's short enough.

That Parker can be shot though. Briley will make some subgauge tubes so you can have an 8 lb 20 gauge if you so wish.

T'were it mine, I'd conserve both wood and metal, hang it over the fireplace and admire it.
 
Dave McC said:
In England, some old barrels have been reproofed and found to be sound.
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I was reading an old Dixie Gun Works catalog the other day, and there was an article on proof testing at home. It involved loading with a double charge and remotely firing the gun. It didn't seem like rocket science; but, of course, you risk destroying the gun in the process.
 
If I were to fire a DOUBLE charge in my Browning I would want to have it be remote, like a LONG string to pull the trigger, VERY LONG string. I don't know if even a modern gun, made last week could handle a double charge. I remember a chat I had with one of the guys at the Ithaca factory in King Ferry. I believe he said they use 40% overcharges to prove their guns.
I know many Damascus guns have been declared safe to shoot and they may in fact be just fine. When you consider HOW the barrel is made, many strips of steel and Iron twisted and welded together, then twisted and welded again then around a mandrell to form a barrel. I would guess, thousands of little individual welds in a Damascus barrel. What happens if one of these small welds lets go, how about the weld next to it and so on?
I have often wondered if the rusting internally really stops. Even though you have Birmingham proof it today, will it still be safe next year because of microscopic rusting and weakening?
You fellas that are willing to touch off a round, well, God bless you, you have bigger heuevos than me. I might fire one if it were sleeved, but certainly not without SOME safety net out there.
 
For sake of argument, I will shamefully admit that when I was young(er) and (more) ignorant, I was given a well-worn Remington Model 1882 side-by-side with 32" damascus barrels by my grandpa. I didn't know anything about pressure differences between powder types or damascus barrels, and figured "a 12ga. is a 12 ga." I love the balance, smoothness, and simplicity of the gun, and did a LOT of shooting with it after I got it. I put boxes and boxes of deer slugs, magnum and high-velocity 00 buckshot, heavy high-velocity turkey loads, and just about any other nasty 2 3/4" shell I could find through it. I'm talking hundreds of high-brass loads over the course of several years, as well as MANY hundreds more heavy target loads (3DR 1 1/8oz). All modern ammunition of course. It never blew or bulged. I eventually took it to a gunsmith who said the barrels looked alright but that they were damascus steel and should not be used with modern ammo. Needless to say, I consider myself INCREDIBLY lucky not to have had a barrel burst (luckier than I deserved given the number of times I poked fate in the eye...). I also can't believe, looking back on it, that I shot a century old shotgun without getting it checked out first. All that said, I can't help but wonder if some of those old guns aren't stronger than they're given credit for. I have heard of barrels bursting on some of those old SxSs, and I'm certainly not suggesting you not worry about it, but just raising the question as to just how weak these barrels really are. Perhaps it's more a question of the quality of construction rather than the method? I really don't know much about these guns, but I'm just wondering based on my own limited research and experience.
 
I was reading an old Dixie Gun Works catalog the other day, and there was an article on proof testing at home. It involved loading with a double charge and remotely firing the gun. It didn't seem like rocket science; but, of course, you risk destroying the gun in the process.
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Were they talking about black powder proofing? I can't see even a modern gun going unscathed with a double charge of smokeless. It's like doubling the charge way more than doubles the pressure.
With black powder, doubling the charge roughly doubles the pressure and all guns should have at least a 2 to 1 strength safety margin.

I can't help but wonder if some of those old guns aren't stronger than they're given credit for.
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I don't think it's the inherent strength but the fact that the barrels are something like 100 years old and there's no telling if there is corrosion between the laminates somewhere forming a weak spot. In the hey day of Damascus steel barrels, shooters paid extra for Damascus because it was believed to be stronger and there were even fake Damascus barrels made of regular steel but etched with a Damascus like pattern on the outside.
 
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I was reading an old Dixie Gun Works catalog the other day, and there was an article on proof testing at home. It involved loading with a double charge and remotely firing the gun. It didn't seem like rocket science; but, of course, you risk destroying the gun in the process.
Click to expand...
Were they talking about black powder proofing?
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I believe it was black powder. I was trying to point out that a Damascus barrel gun could be re-proofed but with the risk of destruction. You're correct, black powder and smokeless powder proofing standards are different in the percentage of the overcharge.

If the OP is really serious about shooting, I still think he needs to contact Briley, or another shop, about tubing (to a smaller gauge) or lining (same gauge) the barrels. If there weren't folks having it done, then why would they would have listed in the standard fee schedule?
 
On top of eveything else that has been said, black powder residue is extremely corrosive. When the gun was fired with BP, these corrosives were driven into the pores and voids of the damascus steel. It is very difficult to remove them 100%.
I have no doubt a properly made and uncorroded damascus barrel would hold up under heavy modern loads, but unless you have your own Magnaflux machine, how would you ever really know the steel was stable?
Sleeve the gun, use 20 gauge inserts, or hang it on the wall. Be safe.
 
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