Ammo choice. What would you do?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I am trying to weigh up the relative benefits and their financial costs to decide if I will continue using milsurp ammo, or go back to buying factory ammo whose cases I then reload.

Right now here are my choices. ($ prices are estimates)

I can buy factory loads. Norma Jatkmatch at €1.20 a shot, or PRVI at €0.90 (About $1.60 and $ 1.15 or so). Up until now I have bought those, shot them, and kept the brass for reloading.

Then I can reload which, depending on the bullet used, comes to about €0.75 or $1 a shot. These prices are guestimated because averaging over the course of uncertain brass life.

Then I have milsurp cartridges at €0.30 or $0.40ish. So I can shoot 5 milsurps for every 2 reloads.

However, milsurps are not as accurate by some margin and have berdan primers meaning the cases are next to useless for me as I don't want to start messing about with decapping berdans, nor source them or drilling each and every case to have them take boxers.

At the moment my rifle shooting is punching paper, trying to improve my form and aim. If I turn to hunting, I'd have to use different ammo anyway: FMJs prohibited.

In you opinion does the financially huge difference make the downsides of the milsurp worthwhile tolerating?
 
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My major thing is reloading will create more accuracy in your rifle, and that to me is always worth the extra expense. I want the most accurate rifle I can produce and mil-surp ammunition doesn't cut it most of the time. That said I do keep cheap plinking ammunition on hand for my wife, daughter, and others to shoot at the range. I don't see why you can't do both.
 
Arrgh! Catch-22. Because here in the US, it's just not that hard to come up with almost ANY brass. But due to crazy import/export restrictions, we can't use that ability to help you.

Because (well, for us at least) it's always most cost-effective to start with brass (new if you must, used is better) than it'll ever be to buy ammo. Always!
 
My major thing is reloading will create more accuracy in your rifle, and that to me is always worth the extra expense.
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I agree and that is one reason I started reloading, although mainly it was so I could afford to shoot the gun I plan to marry: my .44 Redhawk!! ;) .308 came afterwards, but the accuracy benefits, even with my abyssmal technique were immediately visible. Don't get me wong, this is not a case of deciding if reloading is to continue or not, but rather which will take precedence. The milsurp just gives me so much more range experience for the price. 1000rds of milsurp is a lot of trigger time, but the same €300 would only get me about 400 reloads.

Because (well, for us at least) it's always most cost-effective to start with brass (new if you must, used is better) than it'll ever be to buy ammo. Always!
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Well, not here!! I can buy unprimed brass too. I can get Remingon, PRVI or Lapua off the top of my head. But each case costs €0.65, give or take. So if I buy the brass and load that it costs me more for that first shot than it does to buy factory ammo.

If I handload new brass, it costs me about €1.20 for the first shot, then about €0.60 after that for the life of the brass. If I buy factory, it costs as little as €0.90 for the first shot and then the €0.60 after that. Not a big difference per shot but over 1000rds, that makes €300!!
 
Well, if you're talking centerfire rifle, 1000 is a -lot- of shooting. So maybe the cost won't wig you out if you don't think in terms of 1000.
 
So maybe the cost won't wig you out if you don't think in terms of 1000.
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That is true. At my current rate, I'd probably shoot 1000rds of .308 over 3-5 years. I think the AR will be a different story.

However, when I consider the milsurp price and the time not spent handloading, I could easily see my self shooting 1000 over a couple of years. Although time is a big factor too, cost is the major brake on my shooting practice.
 
generally yes. over here the price difference of the milsurp stuff is negligible anymore, but if I were to have that price difference in ammo, I would use what brass you have and handload when you need to establish an accuracy baseline(IE testing to see if the accuracy of your rifle has slipped for some unknown reason), and then use the milsurp stuff for all of your practice. at this point I handload almost all of my hunting ammunition, I have more bullet options and I can pseudo choose my velocity and experiment to find loads my rifle likes best, without having to buy an entire box of potentially inaccurate, or ineffective ammo.
 
^Actually, this post kind of points out the obvious that we often miss in these equations... or maybe I should say... that - I - often miss: these are not black & white, yes or no, 1 or 0 questions.

Do both! Gather some brass for the fine ammo that you KNOW you'll construct and also feed your practice beast with cheaper fodder.
 
"...or drilling each and every case to have them take boxers..." Doesn't work anyway. Berdan primers are not the same dimensions as boxers either.
The only question you need ask yourself is, "Do you want to shoot the best possible ammo out of your rifles or is the mediocre accuracy of milsurp good enough?".
What rifle you have matters a bit too. Not much point worrying what ammo you use out of a milsurp or hunting rifle. A target rifle is different.
Here, in Canada, milsurp ammo is virtually gone. And there ain't more coming due to civil servant interference. Despite that some of the young bucks are thinking Prvi, Wolf, et al, is milsurp. It isn't.
 
Trigger time is important, but time spent shooting inaccurate ammunition does not seem to be what you are looking for. In my experience milsurp 308 is about 3 MOA from even very precise rifles.

So I would recommend buying commercial and reloading the brass, or buying brass and handloading from the get go. You always pay for quality, there is just no way around it.

Jimro
 
Trigger time is important, but time spent shooting inaccurate ammunition does not seem to be what you are looking for. In my experience milsurp 308 is about 3 MOA from even very precise rifles.
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My poor shooting probably contributed somewhat but I'd say that sounds about right through my rifle.

I was never going to give up on reloading, but knowing I had a go to cartridge that didn't make my eyes water when it went through the cashier's machine would have been nice.

I think I will still buy some just so I know I have a stock to go a plink with that doesn't require 4 hours of bench time to load 20 cartridges!!

I have enough Norma cases to keep me busy for now, but when they start to tire, I may opt for a PRVI load, as the Norma cartridges just aren't worth the extra 30% over the Serbian gear. It will mean working up new loads again!!
:D
 
You said "IF you turn to hunting".
IMO, that's what you need to discern.

Hitting a vital zone for a kill (within a few hundred yards), is a whole 'nother animal than target shooting, which- by definition, REQUIRES precision ammunition.

Target shooting, with anything less than match-grade ammo, is a fruitless pursuit. How can you even know, whether the lack of a tighter group is due to shooter error (trigger press, wind call, etc.), or the ammo?

The distinction goes away for long-range hunting, where two inches at 100 yards translates into a wounded animal at 600.
 
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