American vs X7

K

Kachok

New member
Dad's shoulder is going out in a bad way, there is no way he is going to be able to handle his 30-06 this year even if I did put a pad on it. Thought about getting him a very light recoiling rifle, I was hoping to get him a 6.5 Creedmore or 260 but the selection in rifles is slim and expensive, so I am going to have to compromise and go with a 243. I have heard great things about the Ruger and I know from first hand experience that the Marlin is a fine shooter. Both are 22" barrels, both weight in at 6.25lbs. The only performance differences are the Ruger has a 1:9" twist while the Marlin has a 1:10" and the Marlin's barrel has a pressure point while the Ruger is free floated. What are your thought on the comparison and the 243 in general, I have not used one in almost 22 years.
 
The Ruger is free flloated, but the stock is so flimsy it shares few of the benefits f.f. should provide. I had to do a lot of stock work on my Ruger American to get it to print consistent groups. Fine rifle, cheap stock. For about $75 more, T.C. Venture might also interest you.
Just as a side note, my .243 American recoils much harder than (in my opinion) it should. I bought it to give my son, but I believe I am going to have to put a brake on it prior to letting him shoot it. The felt recoil of it is much worse than the felt recoil of my .243 SAKO. Similar weight rifles. Have no idea why the difference in felt recoil. I am not about to give a kid a SAKO, with some of the best wood I have ever laid eyes on, to be his first rifle. The weird thing is the Ruger actually has a recoil pad, and the Sako simply has a rubber butt pad.

I had full shoulder reconstruction a few years ago. Muzzle brakes became my best friend. I hunted against doctors advice for over a year. My shoulder is fine now, but I discovered that rifles dont have to kick hard.
 
Last edited:
.243 is a great cartridge, sounds like just what he needs. If you want to shoot 100 gr bullets I'd play it safe and get a 1:9 twist. 1:10 will be a bit close to not being able to fully stabilize a 100 gr, but it might. If you will be shooting 85-95 grain, the 1:10 will be fine.

The only beef I have with the Ruger is the stock. It's very cheap and flimsy and you're going to have to remove some extra material in the barrel channel for it to be truly floated. Oh yea and forget about using a bipod with it. Also nobody makes an aftermarket stock for it so you're stuck with what Ruger gives you. Other than that its great.

The only beef I have with the X7 is...well, the stock. I don't like the idea of it needing a pressure point for the barrel. Boyd's makes some nice wood stocks for the X7 that float the barrel. But about half the time they shoot as good or better, half the time they shoot worse after floating.

They are both good rifles for the price. The new Remington 783 seems like a decent rifle at the same price point but I haven't been around one so I can't give any guidance there.

For just a few dollars more you can have a Howa 1500 or T/C Venture, which is a step up from the three previously mentioned rifles IMO.

And for a few more dollars you're in the Savage (Axis line doesn't count as a real Savage IMO), Weatherby Vanguard, and Tikka T3 range.

My advice is to take that $350 you were going to spend on the RAR or X7, save another couple hundred and get something of much higher quality that you and your father both will be proud of for years to come.

I believe ~$550 will buy you a new Tikka T3 lite like this one

lite.jpg


Also don't forget there's always the used market. Lots of .243's out there
 
Tikka does make an awesome rifle, I have a 6.5x55 and it is a remarkable rifle. I would give dad mine but I won't be able to find another one. I am pretty sure I got the last one in the United States, a couple friends were very impressed with mine but despite my best efforts I could not find one after that.
 
I have a Tikka T3 Lite and it is an amazing rifle. IMO has the best factory trigger on a rifle for under $1000, very accurate, and a action that is as smooth as a hot knife through butter. It however seems to kick fairly hard. I added a slip-on Limbsaver pad and it made a huge difference. My rifle is a .270 vs. .243
 
Spend a littie more & get a Tikka T3 , to ameliorate recoil further. use a slow burning powder in the .243. 45gr of IMR4831 & a Hornady 87grHPBT bullet is leathal on deer @ sane distances, while felt recoil is mild.
If you want to go to a heavier bullet, the 1in 10 twist WILL stabilise 100gr bullets.
 
Hey Kachok,

Have you considered one of those rifles in 7mm-08? He could shoot light hand loads or reduced recoil factory ammo if he needed to. I have a stainless X7 in 7mm-08 and I really like it. I put it in a Boyds walnut stock and it shoots sub MOA with all the handloads I have worked up.
 
I don't have any experience with either rifle you're looking at but I do the 243 Winchester. I have a Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 chamber for it and I can't find a bad word to say about either one. The cartridge is light recoiling and versatile, and the rifle is just plain accurate. For a $500 rifle I can't believe what a great shooter it is. It has a 1:10 twist so I've stuck to lighter bullets and it's responded with multiple sub 1/2 MOA groups. It especially liked the Barnes 80 grain TTSX's, shooting multiple 1/4 MOA groups.
 
Been There said:
use a slow burning powder in the .243. 45gr of IMR4831 & a Hornady 87grHPBT bullet is leathal on deer @ sane distances, while felt recoil is mild.
Click to expand...


Generally speaking, slow powders INCREASE recoil because they use a larger charge and because less of the powder is finished burning when the bullet leaves the barrel and muzzle pressure is higher, resulting in increased "rocket effect".

According to QuickLoad, your load would generate about 5.07ft/lbs recoil at bullet exit and 9.22ft/lbs after "gas after-effect", with a velocity of 3,163fps from a 22" barrel.

Going to a faster powder like Alliant Rl-15 at max load, the velocity increases to 3,252fps and recoil at bullet exit increases to 5.22ft/lbs but TOTAL recoil after gas after-effect is actually slightly lower at 9.04ft/lbs. In this case, the lower recoil is mostly due to a lower charge.

Similarly, a max load of Hodgdon Varget would get you to 3,198fps and a total recoil at 8.79ft/lbs, due to both lower muzzle pressure and an even lower charge weight.
 
Yeah I am very aware that the 7mm-08 is a very light kicker with 120gr bullets, I just so happen to own one and I do load it with 120gr Pro Hunters over H380, very pleasant to shoot and so accurate that little 6lbs rifle will hang with any bull barrel match rifle I have ever shot with that load, unfortunately that Browning HATES all factory ammo, if you are not feeding it H380 or Big Game forget about grouping you will be doing good just to keep it on paper. Sounds crazy I know but it is true, a powder picky rifle I never heard of such but it is all true. Dad does not handload so that is not the ideal rifle for him though I could keep him well stocked on ammo.
 
I have a Ruger American in .308. It is a very accurate rifle and I really enjoy it. I bought it to long range plink and hunt with. I like the stock on it, but I will agree that it is slightly flimsey. I will also agree that they kick more than they probably should, but that doesnt bother me.

For the money I absolutely love my Ruger. I am just getting into long range shooting, and I am having a blast shooting this rifle.

For the money you cannot go wrong. Also, I dont have one, but I will be getting a .243 eventually. I cannot see any downside to a .243, light recoil and will kill any deer that ever lived.
 
To add my personal experience to what Brian was talking about, I load an 85 gr partition over a starting load of W760 for my wife's .243. It's very accurate and recoil is next to nothing. Not sure what the ft/lb measurement is though.
 
''According to QuickLoad, your load would generate about 5.07ft/lbs recoil at bullet exit and 9.22ft/lbs after "gas after-effect", with a velocity of 3,163fps from a 22" barrel.''
Not really, as I stated the felt recoil is less & not as sharp. The Quickload figures are way off, velocity does not exceed 3000fps in my own testing. 46gr produces 3126fps & 47gr produces 3312 fps, none of these loads exceed 52,000 cup. The other benefit of using slower powders in the .243 is less throat errosion. 45gr is a mild load, which is also very accurate.
 
Well, I can tell you what your load does but the principle holds true. Slower powders generally produce MORE recoil, not less. Smaller charges and lower muzzle pressures both reduce recoil.

You may call it a "mild" load but it's more than a full grain above Hodgdon's published max load for a 90gr bullet.
 
Well, I have given you the actual cronograph results for my Sako & Savage, I don't find the Hodgdon manual to be particularly useful but it is lawer-friendly!
Go back to the Speer manual number 11 for more accurate information, or even the Hodgdon manual from the same period & notice the desparities, maximum loads have decreased, while claimed velocities have increased. All I can tell you is that your figures don't match my 43yrs of experience with .243s.
 
Brian, you are most definitely correct about powder speed and recoil. I usually prefer slow powder for a compilation of the following reasons:
1. Slow powder yields higher velocities with the heavier bullets.
2. I usually get my most accurate loads with slow powders.
3. I usually build rifles with longer than normal barrels. Slow powder is at its best in the long barrels.
4. Almost everything I shoot has a brake on it.
 
My most accurate .243 loads have been with H4350 I think mainly because of the good case fill. I use 70gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips, 87gr. V-max, and 85gr. Sierra HPBT GKs and all of those have accurate loads with H4350 in my 22" model 70. I would love to see if RL-17 can give me good accuracy and more fps but I use up all my RL-17 on my 7mm-08.

By the way, I have had a hard time finding a selection of Marlin X7s for sale. I hope they aren't being phased out.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top