Amazon.com in association with...

J

John/az2

New member
www.vpc.org

I wrote Amazon.com to let them know that until they disassociate with anti-American orginizations they would no longer recieve business from me, and that I would spread the word to those I associate with.

I'm posting it here, because I know that many of you have much more productive ways of saying such things. You suggestions for future protest letters are encouraged and appreciated.

I'm sorry that I cannot in good faith make any more purchases from you until I know that your association is only with those who support this great country's Constitution. www.vpc.org is definately NOT one of them, seeing as they desire to curtail the fundemental rights of all human beings to have the means of responsible self-defense.

It's a shame that in an economy that encouraged free enterprise that orginizations such as yours feel that individual rights can picked and chosen from like parts in a sorting bin in the name of profit.

I sincerely hope that you do not feel that way and will correct this obvious oversight.


BTW, could someone direct me to documentation showing the connection of MCI to pro-control groups?

Thanks.

------------------
John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."



[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited March 25, 1999).]
 
Here's VPC's conclusion to their own "study" linking Texas CCW permit holders to crime.

License to Kill, and Kidnap, and Rape, and Drive Drunk
While advocates of relaxed concealed weapons laws promise the public protection from crime, Texas DPS data details the day-to-day, real-world effect of such laws: they arm criminals and threaten public safety. All too often, concealed carry license holders don't stop crimes, but commit them. In light of the findings of this study, and previous studies conducted by the Violence Policy Center of the Texas and Florida concealed weapons laws, the VPC strongly recommends against the adoption of concealed carry licensing in any additional states and urges states that have passed such laws to repeal them.

This crap is absolutely disgusting. I shudder to think where/how the obtained/fabricated info like this.


------------------
Kelly

Deo Vindice
 
I'm a big advocate of getting the facts. And once you have the facts, I'm an even bigger advocate of presenting them in an unbiased manner.

Here, the VPC has gotten the facts, and I'm willing to go along with the idea that they're not making crap up. So they get points for issue #1, sorta.

But issue #2?

Okay. What they are trying to say is that Texas Permit holders are a menace to society. And they do two things poorly, here.

1. they cite the things texas permit holders have done wrong. Okay. No one, least of all the advocates CCW permits, expects 100 percent of all CCW holders to be crime free. Some permit holders are going to commit crimes. Shocker. Some might even use their guns to do it. Horror.

The question is: are the crime rates for permit holders different from the rates for non-permit holders, and if so, are they higher or lower, and how much higher or lower? Notice they don't tell you any of that.

Citing a list of crimes is worthless. Actually, looking at the numbers of permits handed out and those stats, I'd not be shocked to see that the crime rate for permit holders is far below that of the state as a whole.

2. Some of the things they state are utterly irrelevent. Drunk driving? Wha? So...getting a CCW permit in texas makes you drink and drive? In order to be relevent to the debate on gun control, arguments must show that doing x (getting a permit) makes y (drunk driving) more likely. Hey, I have a theory. those drunk drivers would be driving drunk whether they had a CCW or not.

Boneheads.

Cheers,
Mike
 
Here's what I just sent. I haven't been this active for very long, so constructive criticism will be appreciated and will not result in flames. :)

Dear Sir or Madam:
I was recently made aware that your advertisement appears on the website of the Violence Policy Center, or the VPC for short. I would like to know exactly what Amazon.com's relationship to the VPC is. Are they merely participating in the Associate program? Or does Amazon.com endorse or financially support the VPC? If so, are you aware that the VPC is well known for attacking the constitutional rights of Americans to keep and bear arms which, according to the Second Amendment of the Constitution, "shall not be infringed?"
Are you also aware of the dishonest tactics that VPC uses in order to recruit well-meaning people who apparently could not be won over to the VPC point of view with the use of facts? A good example is on the front of the VPC website right now; in a current study, the VPC recommends that Americans be denied the right to carry a firearm (especially a concealed firearm) even though the Second Amendment clearly states that the right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed." Their basis for this recommendation is that some CCW holders have committed crimes, not that the crimes were made more likely, more prevalent, more violent, or in any other way worsened by the fact that the criminal possessed a license to carry a concealed weapon. If an organization approached you for support, saying that because some books are inflammatory the First Amendment should be abolished or amended to allow the banning of "objectionable" books, I have no doubt that your corporation would enjoy a collective laugh at that organization's expense. If an organization approached you and stated that the rights of safety from unreasonable search and seizure should be abolished or "infringed," I KNOW what your corporation's response would be--because it has been attempted. The organization was the Office of the Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, and your organization defended the Constitution in that case, even though the link was tenuous. Why should the Second Amendment be disposable if the others are not? Secondarily, why am I fighting so hard to preserve the right to free speech in America, which benefits your corporation, if your corporation is in league with those who would deny me the right to keep and bear arms?
Needless to say, if I find that your corporation actively supports a group like the VPC, I will regrettably be unable to do any more business with you, nor can I recommend you to my friends in good conscience.
Awaiting your response, I am

Don Gwinn
dgwinn@monm.edu
(309)457-3405
(217)965-3887

If anyone in your office is curious about what kind of people carry and use guns and knives for self defense, hunting, and target shooting, please direct them to the following discussion forums. I can personally attest that even those who agree with no part of the missions of these forums will recieve civil answers to ANY question, no matter how inflammatory, if asked in a civil manner. Thank you.

http://www.thefiringline.com
http://www.gunforums.com
http://www.bladeforums.com
http://www.knifeforums.com

If anyone in your office has not seen the dishonest rhetoric used by the VPC, please visit:
http://www.vpc.org

Of course, the only fair course for anyone who considers him/herself undecided is to visit both the VPC and at least one of the pro-gun forums. Thank you again for taking the time to read this.

What do you all think?
I made a couple of edits, but that's OK because I haven't sent the email yet. I'm going to change to this version now and send it on it's merry way. I especially liked reminding them that when some nebulous right to keep a prosecutor from finding out what you read (a right that ordinary Americans DON'T usually have) was under fire, they came to the rescue. Of course, that was when the mean conservatives were out to get Clinton . . . :)
Also, the formatting looks screwy here but in the email it'll be good paragraph form.

------------------
Don

"Hey you, let's fight!"
"Them's fightin' words!"




[This message has been edited by Gwinnydapooh (edited March 25, 1999).]
 
It appears to me that Amazon.com is simply selling the VPC's book, not taking a stance against gun ownership.

Does not Amazon.com also sell plenty of pro-gun books?
 
I have not found much for gun control on Amazon and plety against it. If they are running banner ads for VPC, that's different. What is the URL, so we can see for ourselves?
 
As you said, Bill! I apologize.

The reply from Amazon.com ---

Thank you for writing to us about our association with The Violence
Policy Center. Theirs is just one of the tens of thousands of
websites that have joined the Amazon.com Associates Program. This
program is designed to allow independent editors, who recommend books,
CDs and videos from their own points of view, to provide links to
Amazon.com for the ordering of these titles. Associates are paid a
small percentage of any resulting sales as a compensation for
recommending our services.

Amazon.com does not endorse the viewpoints expressed by our individual
Associate sites, nor could we given the range of opinions they
express. Our Associates range from the NRA to the ACLU and include
viewpoints on all sides of virtually every major political, social and
religious issue. Our role as a retailer of books, music and videos is
to bring people into contact with the entire spectrum of ideas in
print, and let the ideas speak for themselves.

We hope you'll understand that our goal in working with an Associate
is not to provide support to their point of view, but simply to
provide interested readers with access to all the books, CDs and
videos in our catalog.


Have a Great Day,

Tim Gracie
Amazon.com
---

I thanked him for his swift and polite reply.

------------------
John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."



[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited March 25, 1999).]
 
Amazon.com does indeed stock weapon related texts, many discounted and otherwise difficult to locate. I picked up knife and stick fighting books from them last year.
Jeff
 
I got an almost identical response, but different enough that two different humans had obviously written the two different responses. Overall, I'm impressed. I'm kinda sorry I hassled them now, but they don't seem terribly miffed.
 
John & Don
You have already gotten good responses from Amazon.com, but I need to put in my 2c worth on their behalf. I have bought several gun related books from them including "Unintended Consequences". If they had any leanings towards gun control, I feel certain they would have removed that book from their virtual shelves, or not added it like several libraries have done. Also, when I return to their site, the welcome screen usually has a list of gun related books for me to buy. Knowing how easy it would be to filter this list, I applaud them for not doing this.
 
It's a First Amendment thang, ya know. Free access to ALL informationand sources. The part most forget is that you still get to think for yourself, tho many don't get that far. I know their crap is heinous, obnoxious, annoying, and wrong, but this is America.

The best revenge is to go to Amazon.com and post your review of their book. Be focused, factual and mature in your rebuttal, citing alternative sources and substantiate your position. I know it's work, but simply ranting & raving only reinforces the negative image of us that the dweebsters want to propagate, let's not play into their hands.

No 'ready, fire, aim', please M2
--------------------------
It's not that I'm illiterate, I just can't type well this early

[This message has been edited by Mike in VA (edited March 26, 1999).]
 
This is a classic example of misleading with facts. To BLAME the gun permit is the improper conclusion.
You could probably find that a degree from Harvard would support much the same findings.
I mean no disrespect to Harvardians.This is the same logic that Bill Clinton uses and I think he was at Harvard.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Mal H, "Unintended Consequences" is an excellent book. I also bought it from Amazon.com. I think it would be banned by any gun-control, anti-freedom types... It's an interesting read that I recommend. The gun culture history is excellent...
 
Granted. It was a knee-jerk reaction.

My apologies to all (I feel about knee-high to a grasshopper...)

I need to do a little more background checking before making such a post...

*gad, i'm soooo embarrased....

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited March 27, 1999).]
 
John/Az2, well you should be. :D
IF Amazon was really anti gun they sure would not have the several pages of good reviews of UNINTENDED CONEQUENCES at their site. Spend a little $ there and buy John's book, he needs the dough. LOL :D :D


------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
 
John - Stop falling on your sword, you're going to bend it! And you might need it later. :) I personally think you took the right course. It is much better to speak up when you see something wrong than to sit on your hands and just let it go.
 
Mal,

Thanks (straightening out my sword).

I just want to be one of those intelligent "I've got my facts straight about gun issues" type of guys. :D

Ah well, live and learn. ;)

------------------
John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top