Generally the recommendation for storing firearms in one's house/apt is a gun safe bolted to the floor. For me, this might not be the best option. I'm still in medical school right now and I know that I'll be moving to different cities at least 2 times in the next 3 years so I'm hesitant to buy a big bulky safe for that reason - moving/packing/loading/unloading is like death for me. If I have to forgo getting a safe whats the best option for storing my guns? Right now I have 4 long guns and 4 handguns out of which 2 are irreplaceable for sentimental reasons and my student budget. I store them under my bed, in a closet, nightstand, and dresser but I'm paranoid about having them stolen if my house/apt is robbed. Any suggestions? Thanks.
alternative to gun safes
- Thread starter grantman
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Somewhere Else???
For the irreplacable guns, do you have buddy, relative, etc that you would trust to store them?
The others, I would keep locks on with company but would probably keep as well hidden as possible. Might want to put them in a place where someone would be unlikely to look for valuables - i.e. laundry room, etc.
But remember, you are responsible for your firearms. If some 15 year old breaks in and takes a gun that you didn't store properly, you will be liable for what happens in many cases. So my suggestion does come with a risk. For that liability reason it might make sense to buy a cheaper safe. At least you could say you had them locked up.
Of course that's the first place a criminal will look.
Tough call.
For the irreplacable guns, do you have buddy, relative, etc that you would trust to store them?
The others, I would keep locks on with company but would probably keep as well hidden as possible. Might want to put them in a place where someone would be unlikely to look for valuables - i.e. laundry room, etc.
But remember, you are responsible for your firearms. If some 15 year old breaks in and takes a gun that you didn't store properly, you will be liable for what happens in many cases. So my suggestion does come with a risk. For that liability reason it might make sense to buy a cheaper safe. At least you could say you had them locked up.
Of course that's the first place a criminal will look.
Tough call.
L_Killkenny
New member
Get really good at hiding them!!! Handguns are easy. Long guns are a bit more difficult. Where won't a bugler look first? Maybe behind appliances? Washer,Dryer,Refer? Duct work? Maybe build a "fake" half wall like you might see in a bar with a chair rail at the top? You know....a 2x4 wall that is about 3' tall with a stained 1x6 for a top cap and and paneling along the front. Secure it to your will with something....maybe velcro. Cut in brackets along the back to hang you guns. Just brainstorming here.
oneounceload
Moderator
sorry, get the safe and learn to deal with it - it isn't THAT bad - I have moved over 17 times in the last 22 years....the safe has made it through the last 5 moves - took a GOOD handtruck and some friends, but it isn't impossible.......and given the current litigious ways, even more advisable. For the price of one of your guns, you can help keep them from falling into the wrong hands and opening yourself up to frivilous lawsuits.......definitely worth the cost and hassle.
25 years ago, I had a wooden display case in my living room showing off my guns....now it is a safe with 1-1/4" thick door
JMO, YMMV and your guns are your business......
25 years ago, I had a wooden display case in my living room showing off my guns....now it is a safe with 1-1/4" thick door
JMO, YMMV and your guns are your business......
Get a small safe? I know it isn't what you're asking for, but I bought one as well. I'm a grad student living in a singlewide trailer (ahhh.... cheap college living) and realize the budget thing. I also understand the moving as I lived in dorms for my undergrad during the fall and spring and apartments in the summer.
Like you, I also have irreplaceable guns with sentimental value. For instance, I have my great-great grandfather's revolver he carried during the Civil War and my father's S&W 66-2 that both he and I have had to defend ourselves with. You can't put a price on those guns. I, like you, was storing them here and there. Some in cases under the bed, some in the closet, four in the nightstand, a few in the chest of drawers. I had a small fire box I kept the two aforementioned guns in.
Then I got to thinking about it. I have insurance, but it would only cover replacement value at the time of the appraisal. What good would that do? Especially the way prices on everything keep shooting up? My great-great grandfather's gun was appraised at $500. 500 BUCKS! It's almost 150 years old, he used it to save his life on multiple occasions, and it survived to be passed down all these years to me. You know what I would buy with that $500 if it was stolen or destroyed? A cheap gun to shoot myself in the foot with!
What's the long and short of it? While it may seem cumbersome to get a fire safe, find something small and manageable. You'll thank yourself if you do. You'll be rather upset if something happens and you didn't.
Like you, I also have irreplaceable guns with sentimental value. For instance, I have my great-great grandfather's revolver he carried during the Civil War and my father's S&W 66-2 that both he and I have had to defend ourselves with. You can't put a price on those guns. I, like you, was storing them here and there. Some in cases under the bed, some in the closet, four in the nightstand, a few in the chest of drawers. I had a small fire box I kept the two aforementioned guns in.
Then I got to thinking about it. I have insurance, but it would only cover replacement value at the time of the appraisal. What good would that do? Especially the way prices on everything keep shooting up? My great-great grandfather's gun was appraised at $500. 500 BUCKS! It's almost 150 years old, he used it to save his life on multiple occasions, and it survived to be passed down all these years to me. You know what I would buy with that $500 if it was stolen or destroyed? A cheap gun to shoot myself in the foot with!
What's the long and short of it? While it may seem cumbersome to get a fire safe, find something small and manageable. You'll thank yourself if you do. You'll be rather upset if something happens and you didn't.
The irreplaceable guns are probably better off in a more secure location. If nothing else, well oiled, vacuum sealed and put into a bank safe deposit box and insured.
Short of a real safe, all you can do is slow down a determined thief. Even the "residential security containers" (aka "safes") can't stop thieves with tools and plenty of time.
You can buy a $99 strong box safe that'll hold 2-4 handguns and mount that to a closet wall.¹ Placing it on the floor is possible, though filling the lower portion with bags of lead shot will make it difficult to just carry off.²
Mossberg had a wall-mounted shotgun lock that enclosed the shotgun action with a lower-end mount that the muzzle rested on. Or simply eyebolts screwed in to the studs with extra-thick vinyl-coated cable padlocking the long guns individually will slow them down.
Your best bet it to layer your security as much as you can. That starts with a peep hole in your front door and a bright porch/entry light. Making sure your windows are all secure against opening from the outside is next. Spend the extra money for a deadbolt lock on the door. Be sure it's anchored with at least 3.5" screws to the door jamb.
Alarm systems aren't practical in most apartments. There are are some "portable" Laser/IR/Ultrasonic types that will scream loudly however. These are placed in a room and emit signals that cover the room. Anyone interrupting the signals sets off the loud alarm. Not effective if you have pets and/or leave windows partially open and the drapes blow around.
You can buy inexpensive alarms for windows & doors from First-Alert. These battery units emit an alarm noise to alert anyone inside that a door/window was opened. All a thief will know is that an alarm has sounded. Couple that with a 2nd, much louder unit with a 10 second delay and the noise is likely to make him retreat.
Local alarms (like those above) depend on someone hearing it and calling police or investigating. The noise attracts attention. But if thieves can locate the alarms and neutralize them quickly, it may only serve to delay them a couple of minutes.
Other simple "wireless" alarm systems that come with 24/7 monitoring may be an option, though painful to the budget. A system like LaserShield has the benefit of portability and 24/7 monitoring. In this case, when the alarm activates, someone can call the police for you.
Now that we've covered the outside, what about inside?
Look for apartments with walk-in closets with a single door. Sliding double doors on closets can't be secured. Adding a simple keyed doorknob set to a walk-in closet door will reduce casual entry. It won't stop lockpicking or lock bumping, nor stop a hard kick. But it's another alarm point and another barrier to overcome.
Advice: Thieves know where to look for "hiding places". They will look under beds, behind pictures & dressers. If they dump drawers out, they'll look under the bottom drawer of your dresser. They'll look in bathroom cabinets, behind the sofa and under it's cushions. Anything they find that might hold something valuable, they'll try to open - footlockers, cedar chests, plastic containers, etc.
If you try to hide them, it's likely a thief with no reason to hurry will find them. That's your goal -- if they get in, give them a reason to leave in a hurry such as a loud alarm system.
Lastly, a steel gun cabinet is better than nothing, but it can be a false sense of security. The simple types sold by Homak and Stack On can be defeated with simple tools. Home Depot sells a Sentry brand safe that's small and will hold 4-6 long guns for a good price. Not too heavy either.
¹ If studs aren't conveniently placed, you can screw a 1x2 strip along the wall to help anchor it, along with a 2x2 strip underneath to support the weight.
² On the floor has advantages. A single lag screw through the back into a stud, coupled with 30-lbs of shot in the bottom make it difficult to move. Once pried off the wall, he now has 40-50 lbs to carry.
Short of a real safe, all you can do is slow down a determined thief. Even the "residential security containers" (aka "safes") can't stop thieves with tools and plenty of time.
You can buy a $99 strong box safe that'll hold 2-4 handguns and mount that to a closet wall.¹ Placing it on the floor is possible, though filling the lower portion with bags of lead shot will make it difficult to just carry off.²
Mossberg had a wall-mounted shotgun lock that enclosed the shotgun action with a lower-end mount that the muzzle rested on. Or simply eyebolts screwed in to the studs with extra-thick vinyl-coated cable padlocking the long guns individually will slow them down.
Your best bet it to layer your security as much as you can. That starts with a peep hole in your front door and a bright porch/entry light. Making sure your windows are all secure against opening from the outside is next. Spend the extra money for a deadbolt lock on the door. Be sure it's anchored with at least 3.5" screws to the door jamb.
Alarm systems aren't practical in most apartments. There are are some "portable" Laser/IR/Ultrasonic types that will scream loudly however. These are placed in a room and emit signals that cover the room. Anyone interrupting the signals sets off the loud alarm. Not effective if you have pets and/or leave windows partially open and the drapes blow around.
You can buy inexpensive alarms for windows & doors from First-Alert. These battery units emit an alarm noise to alert anyone inside that a door/window was opened. All a thief will know is that an alarm has sounded. Couple that with a 2nd, much louder unit with a 10 second delay and the noise is likely to make him retreat.
Local alarms (like those above) depend on someone hearing it and calling police or investigating. The noise attracts attention. But if thieves can locate the alarms and neutralize them quickly, it may only serve to delay them a couple of minutes.
Other simple "wireless" alarm systems that come with 24/7 monitoring may be an option, though painful to the budget. A system like LaserShield has the benefit of portability and 24/7 monitoring. In this case, when the alarm activates, someone can call the police for you.
Now that we've covered the outside, what about inside?
Look for apartments with walk-in closets with a single door. Sliding double doors on closets can't be secured. Adding a simple keyed doorknob set to a walk-in closet door will reduce casual entry. It won't stop lockpicking or lock bumping, nor stop a hard kick. But it's another alarm point and another barrier to overcome.
Advice: Thieves know where to look for "hiding places". They will look under beds, behind pictures & dressers. If they dump drawers out, they'll look under the bottom drawer of your dresser. They'll look in bathroom cabinets, behind the sofa and under it's cushions. Anything they find that might hold something valuable, they'll try to open - footlockers, cedar chests, plastic containers, etc.
If you try to hide them, it's likely a thief with no reason to hurry will find them. That's your goal -- if they get in, give them a reason to leave in a hurry such as a loud alarm system.
Lastly, a steel gun cabinet is better than nothing, but it can be a false sense of security. The simple types sold by Homak and Stack On can be defeated with simple tools. Home Depot sells a Sentry brand safe that's small and will hold 4-6 long guns for a good price. Not too heavy either.
¹ If studs aren't conveniently placed, you can screw a 1x2 strip along the wall to help anchor it, along with a 2x2 strip underneath to support the weight.
² On the floor has advantages. A single lag screw through the back into a stud, coupled with 30-lbs of shot in the bottom make it difficult to move. Once pried off the wall, he now has 40-50 lbs to carry.
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Prof Young
New member
What do you want your safe to do?
Shooters:
I think it all boils down to what you want your safe to do. The "cheaper" sheet metal safes, for both long guns and hand guns, are not going to stop the determined professional thief. But how many of us expect to a professional thief? The pro thiefs go after the rich people and they can afford a good safe. And the pros probably don't go after guns much. The cheaper sheet metal "safes" will keep roommates, children etc. out of your guns. I also think they will deter the non-pro thief enough to do the job. I live in rural Illinois and have all my guns in the "cheaper" sheet metal safes. It's all I need. I do keep a couple of "dehumidifying packs" in there with the guns an ammo.
Live well, be safe.
Prof Young
Shooters:
I think it all boils down to what you want your safe to do. The "cheaper" sheet metal safes, for both long guns and hand guns, are not going to stop the determined professional thief. But how many of us expect to a professional thief? The pro thiefs go after the rich people and they can afford a good safe. And the pros probably don't go after guns much. The cheaper sheet metal "safes" will keep roommates, children etc. out of your guns. I also think they will deter the non-pro thief enough to do the job. I live in rural Illinois and have all my guns in the "cheaper" sheet metal safes. It's all I need. I do keep a couple of "dehumidifying packs" in there with the guns an ammo.
Live well, be safe.
Prof Young
you could just get a minivault for your one gun and hide it without bolting it down. the length is less than a book and its just over the thickness of a dictionary book. its really not that big.
I use it and I love it.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...40403&cm_ite=0005562220659a&_requestid=118173
securing it is easy as well.
I use it and I love it.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...40403&cm_ite=0005562220659a&_requestid=118173
securing it is easy as well.
ok, i just want to say i have been in a similar situation, although all i had was handguns(which sound like your main priority), here is what i did:
i went out and bought a standard size pistol safe (big enough to hold the 6 guns i had, maybe 13"x9x9""ish), i bolted it to the floor in my closet and i buried it under a fake pile of dirty clothes. it seriously just looked like a plie of clothes in my closet.
most safes come with pre-drilled holes for mounting. just go buy a few big ole' screws, some big washers, and bolt that sucker down. even if you have wood floor the holes are easy to cover up when you move (assuming you rent ,as i did, and dont want to leave holes in the floor).
you might have to hit up a local goodwill store for the extra pile of clothes but its worth the camouflage.
i think that the small (under $100 safes) are just fine as long as you camouflage them well. and mine was worked into an area where it would have been truly hard to pry into and impossible to rip out.
and the best part of it all is that it is easy to move from house to house. its not hard for you to remove from the inside, but hard for a criminal to find or breach.
i went out and bought a standard size pistol safe (big enough to hold the 6 guns i had, maybe 13"x9x9""ish), i bolted it to the floor in my closet and i buried it under a fake pile of dirty clothes. it seriously just looked like a plie of clothes in my closet.
most safes come with pre-drilled holes for mounting. just go buy a few big ole' screws, some big washers, and bolt that sucker down. even if you have wood floor the holes are easy to cover up when you move (assuming you rent ,as i did, and dont want to leave holes in the floor).
you might have to hit up a local goodwill store for the extra pile of clothes but its worth the camouflage.
i think that the small (under $100 safes) are just fine as long as you camouflage them well. and mine was worked into an area where it would have been truly hard to pry into and impossible to rip out.
and the best part of it all is that it is easy to move from house to house. its not hard for you to remove from the inside, but hard for a criminal to find or breach.
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Tucker 1371
New member
I have no clue what my grandpaw has or who makes it but it is about 6 to 7 feet tall, about 5ft wide and 3ft to 4ft deep with an area for rifles to stand, 2 shelves and a few cubby holes. It is also bolted to the floor and probably weighs well in excess of 1k lbs. I think it had to be professionally installed too. However, since he bought it back when his business was strong it probably also cost as much as 2 or 3 high end rifles. Nobody is stealing his guns though.
As for me I have nothing. While at home they stay on or near my person. I have not been able to bring my guns down to where I go to school yet so I'm not to sure what I'll do then. I know all last summer I rode around with my 500c in the back seat of my truck unloaded while I left my 10/22 nextdoor with my grandpaw. Not sure what I'll do with my AK when I get it back, it'll probably ride unloaded next to my shotgun. This is legal in Georgia.
As for me I have nothing. While at home they stay on or near my person. I have not been able to bring my guns down to where I go to school yet so I'm not to sure what I'll do then. I know all last summer I rode around with my 500c in the back seat of my truck unloaded while I left my 10/22 nextdoor with my grandpaw. Not sure what I'll do with my AK when I get it back, it'll probably ride unloaded next to my shotgun. This is legal in Georgia.
ursavus.elemensis
New member
We have several safes, but one of the tried and true methods I've used over the years is a well-made heavy-gauge aluminum footlocker with bricks, cinderblocks, or bulk ammo on the bottom (wrap the bricks or cinderblocks in magazines/newspapers and tape securely with packing tape to prevent scratching nice guns). I've got one of these in service right now for the stuff that I take out for shooting and CCW regularly. I have had to take out some of the cinderblocks to have room for bulk ammo, and the whole footlocker is way too heavy for any theives to pick up. It is secured with a solid padlock. If a thief had time, he could certainly pry his way into it. But he'd need a 3 day weekend and would have to figure out what to do about my security system, my dogs, etc before settling down to the job at hand.
IMO, get yourself the Stack-On security cabinet. Bolt it to the floor, hide the key and keep your residential insurance up to date. The common burglar wants to get in quickly and leave quicker. No heavy duty tools, just his grubby little thief paws. He searches for the easy pick up items and bolts. He may spot the cabinet and may or may not know the contents. Even if he does, he'll have to search for pry tools and that takes time, plus the time to force it open. It also makes noise and may leave his fingerprints behind. It's a crap shoot anyway, or your bad luck. Besides, for all of us who leave a "bedside" gun nearby, unlocked 24/7, it will probably be found and taken by the thief. You might focus more on making it tougher to gain entry into your residence in the first place.
2Old2Change
New member
For what it's worth; I just bought my second handgun safe from Harbor Freight, for $55. Not the greatest, but can be bolted on the back, and has an over-rideable combo lock. At least, you know it's going to take some time to rip it loose, or it'll be heavy to carry,very far. 
I would continue to hide them as best I could, but in the case of bolt action rifles remove the bolt and hide in a different place. Revolvers, remove the cylinder and crane and do likewise. Pistols remove the slide. The small parts could be hidden more easily and if the others are found they may not be taken as they would be inoperable as found.
Hiding In plain sight
The first thing Is to try to think as the person trying to get your guns!!! Go the a fishing tackel shop and get you self some 80lb. test wire leader or heavy 80lb. test mono fishing leader, Wal Mart fishing dept. move you dresser away from the wall and put 2 wood screws Into the back of the dresser about36" /3 foot apart Into some solid wood and hange the long guns horizontally just far apart so they will fit one on top of the other without touching each other and push the dresser back against the wall as far as it will go, now you can also use the head board of you bed the same way and you can also hange the hand guns in the same way not needing so much room, make sure that you tie them so that they won't get loose and fall, surgens knot!!! Most of all do not tell anyone what you did or how you did it, If you want to keep things from others, don't tell others!!! If the dressers or head board stand to far away from the wall just stand something along side it and cover the space, make it look like It's always like that, in this case you can be a little sloppy. " Hide In plain sight "
Now lets say that you have a shotgun that you keep at the ready, one of the best places to keep that shotgun is behind you bedroom door, no self respecting robber will ever go into a bedroom and close the door behind him/herself, If you can easely see the gun without lookint to closely, just hang an old shirt over it. When two people know a secret, it is no longer a secret!!! Any safe that man makes man can get Into, go on to "you tube" and see how the kids will show you how you can easely open a combo lock with a small peice of an alumnium can!!! Sorry for the bad spelling, not my thing, Semper FI to all, Hank D.
The first thing Is to try to think as the person trying to get your guns!!! Go the a fishing tackel shop and get you self some 80lb. test wire leader or heavy 80lb. test mono fishing leader, Wal Mart fishing dept. move you dresser away from the wall and put 2 wood screws Into the back of the dresser about36" /3 foot apart Into some solid wood and hange the long guns horizontally just far apart so they will fit one on top of the other without touching each other and push the dresser back against the wall as far as it will go, now you can also use the head board of you bed the same way and you can also hange the hand guns in the same way not needing so much room, make sure that you tie them so that they won't get loose and fall, surgens knot!!! Most of all do not tell anyone what you did or how you did it, If you want to keep things from others, don't tell others!!! If the dressers or head board stand to far away from the wall just stand something along side it and cover the space, make it look like It's always like that, in this case you can be a little sloppy. " Hide In plain sight "
Now lets say that you have a shotgun that you keep at the ready, one of the best places to keep that shotgun is behind you bedroom door, no self respecting robber will ever go into a bedroom and close the door behind him/herself, If you can easely see the gun without lookint to closely, just hang an old shirt over it. When two people know a secret, it is no longer a secret!!! Any safe that man makes man can get Into, go on to "you tube" and see how the kids will show you how you can easely open a combo lock with a small peice of an alumnium can!!! Sorry for the bad spelling, not my thing, Semper FI to all, Hank D.
grymster2007
New member
Really? I don't see how one would be held criminally liable in that case, but have no doubt that a jury in a civil action might be convinced that the homeowner be punished for the criminal actions of another.
I agree grim ^
But you would feel pretty bad if your guns got used in a massacer or something, because you didn't lock them up or hide them safely.... maybe you would feel 'moraly responsible'?
I would suggest for the handguns, disguising them/hiding them..... In a hollowed out book in the bottom of a box of books maybe, inside something worthless to a BG.... trouble is, BG's often look for things in 'unusual' places.
Trigger locks, separate the parts (bolts out of rifles, wheels out of revolvers, barrels out of SA's) that way, BG probably wont bother with them, the triggers are locked & half the bits are missing, can't use it, might leave it?
Personally, I would just get a cheap rifle cabinet/safe and just have to move it when you go, unfortunately. Lock it to a wall stud with a chain or cable... putty the hole from the lock ring screwed into the stud when you leave.
But you would feel pretty bad if your guns got used in a massacer or something, because you didn't lock them up or hide them safely.... maybe you would feel 'moraly responsible'?
I would suggest for the handguns, disguising them/hiding them..... In a hollowed out book in the bottom of a box of books maybe, inside something worthless to a BG.... trouble is, BG's often look for things in 'unusual' places.
Trigger locks, separate the parts (bolts out of rifles, wheels out of revolvers, barrels out of SA's) that way, BG probably wont bother with them, the triggers are locked & half the bits are missing, can't use it, might leave it?
Personally, I would just get a cheap rifle cabinet/safe and just have to move it when you go, unfortunately. Lock it to a wall stud with a chain or cable... putty the hole from the lock ring screwed into the stud when you leave.
grymster2007
New member
You overestimate my character.
thanks
Thanks for all the suggestions, I think I'm going to make a trip, invest in a safe, and suck it up with moving the thing around. Too much to keep risking by keeping guns under the bed and in the closet. I'll probably look at getting with enough room left over that I can slowly add to the collection without getting cramped.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I think I'm going to make a trip, invest in a safe, and suck it up with moving the thing around. Too much to keep risking by keeping guns under the bed and in the closet. I'll probably look at getting with enough room left over that I can slowly add to the collection without getting cramped.