Alternative to a handgun for personal defense

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EnoughGUN

New member
As "gun people" the ever present fight to keep and protect our right/ ability to use handguns as protection is often on our minds. We all know that most anti gun arguments are not based on any hard facts and a great deal of the problem is a demonization of guns instead of seeing them as a tool that only extends the ability of the user. Yeah blah blah I have a point lol.
We use handguns because they are the most potent means of doing what we want them to do. What is we had an alternative that was an equal to handguns. The fact is that even if we did away with them criminals would still be armed with guns or other weapons which when coupled with suprise, size, and oll the other variables that often come into play in a defense situation mean that something of equal ability in stopping a conflict of a gun is needed.
What if we could come up with something that was as effective as a handgun but totally NOT a "gun" . Tasers are not bad but have obvious limitations.

So lets hear ideas. What device could do the job and offer the public the saftey a handgun does and have none of the "evil GUN" stigma?
 
While there are other options (besides firearms) for incapacitating human attackers they all lack one major factor that make firearms an excellent choice for the job. Deterrent. A HUGE part of what makes a firearm an excellent choice for self-defense is that an attacker faced with one knows that if he doesn't break off the attack double-quick he could shortly be assuming ambient temperature. That is a major deterrent for any rational human being.

Ok, this is a firearms forum and this is the Handgun section. Posts that are not about firearms are off topic for this forum. The topic will be allowed to continue only as long as there is an on-topic thread (firearm related theme) running through the discussion.
 
JohnKSA...

... how is it possible to keep it firearm-related, when the OP is specifically asking for a non-gun alternative? The thread is, from its origin, linked to firearms exactly by trying to find alternatives to firearms.
 
Agreed on the point of deterent. The alternative would have to have as much scare factor as a handgun. I am not talking just about less then lethal options but anything that does the job. Just for an example: a taser like device that had enough rage for any encounter without the attached wires and a multi shot ability.Knowing you could get stunned with something that would put you in insane pain, make you puke and soil yourself would be a good deterent.
 
The thread is, from its origin, linked to firearms exactly by trying to find alternatives to firearms.
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As long as this is the focus (i.e. there's some link to firearms) then it's on topic.

So a cogent and on-topic response would provide an alternative and explain how that alternative is equal to a handgun in the practical aspects that are of concern. Others would agree or disagree or provide their own alternatives and rationale.
 
Ok, this is a firearms forum and this is the Handgun section. Posts that are not about firearms are off topic for this forum. The topic will be allowed to continue only as long as there is an on-topic thread (firearm related theme) running through the discussion.
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I believe, in this case, the topic is pertinent as it indeed relates to firearms, but in an indirect way. After all, we are talking about alternate means of defending ones life if a handgun is not available. This alone should be reason enough to keep such a thread alive.
 
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actually that sounds better the more i think of it. A taser without wires. Providing an advanced enough power source you could have darts that when chambered take a charge like a capacitor and release it when it hits the target. They wouldn't have to hold it for long and really if they discharged fast that would make them safer incase you miss. They only need to be charged for long enough to reach the target. The only issues would be coming up with a suitable power source, storage medium for in the dart and of course the real hurtle the price of development.
 
I'd say my reply was cogent...

... because given current technology, the idea that something PC, acceptable to antis, and generally inoffensive could be as effective a stopper as a firearm is both fantasy and comedy, in one.

Hence, the killer rabbit.

After all, Taser type weapons don't have enough shots, and would not be portable given current batteries, etc, if they were designed for multiple shots. They don't penetrate thin barriers, and they don't have much range to speak of.

Bladed weapons aren't considered PC and harmless. If they were, I'd be a lot more likely to openly carry a Busse HG55 or maybe a large tanto, but even then those are not good alternatives to handguns.

Chemical weapons? Limited by range, BG pain threshold, wind and other environmental factors....

Dogs? Excellent, but you can only take so many along with you (most folks would be challenged handling one guard dog, let alone multiple), so they aren't necessarily effective against multiple attackers. They could be great deterrents, though.

So, in order to try to give serious answers, we'd have to start talking future tech, and more on the sci-fi than near horizon scale.

Again, might as well go with the killer-rabbit, which cogently, humorously (I thought) and CONCISELY conveyed the same basic thought as this much longer and more serious answer.
 
A taser without wires. Providing an advanced enough power source you could have darts that when chambered take a charge like a capacitor and release it when it hits the target.
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The design would also need to provide roughly the same capacity as a typical handgun and provide a means for the user to carry a reload and employ it in roughly the same amount of time that it takes to reload a typical handgun.
 
Bladed weapons aren't considered PC and harmless. If they were, I'd be a lot more likely to openly carry a Busse HG55 or maybe a large tanto, but even then those are not good alternatives to handguns.
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I feel that a blade is quite effective..at close range anyway. Sure, its no firearm, but its still effective. Frankly, I do not believe there is truly anything out there that could effectively replace the firearm for overall effectiveness. But, assuming that firearms did not exist, the blade usually comes to mind, regardless of form. Keep in mind, there is also the exceptionally effective projectile type blade (as used by Spetsnaz, for instance) to consider. But, this is certainly not legal for civilian use by todays standards. So, the only practical alternatives (for medium range and beyond) would probably be among items such as the taser.

In summary, unless I could legally carry a projection capable blade, as an alternative to a handgun, I would opt for a good knife and a taser. This way, I would at least have 2 out of 3 ranges covered.

But, I have a gun. So, all of this stuff is somewhat superfluous. ;)
 
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The magazine and rounds would function roughly the same as in a normal handgun so loading etc should not be an issue. The big hurtle I think would be power. It would help if instead of a battery it used some sort of capacitor. A storage device using most of the space in the handle could hold a great deal of energy, enough for a few shots. The dart could be fired with a primer like charge in the back of the dart. The mechanics would be simple because there would not be much pressure from the charge moving the dart. It could also be built fairly light in construction (I would think all plastic since holding a highly charged dart in a metal gun would be a bit sketchy)
 
just looked some things up and an X26 taser has a power surce that can provide power for 50 applications. It would seem that you could make one to fit in the handle of a gun that would easily provide enough power for a couple magazines of darts.
 
One thing to consider is a firearm can be used by even the very elderly, small or feeble. Something that may not be said of striking or contact weapons. I wouldn't consider sprays as an alternate as they have not been proven to be effective. As far as I know, firearms are the only weapon that can be used by almost anyone regardless of size or condition.
Dallas Jack
 
To many way's for me to mention, but I will say it starts from your brain.

Every situation is different.

I've been there more times than two.
 
Sci-fi future is almost here

MLeake said:
So, in order to try to give serious answers, we'd have to start talking future tech, and more on the sci-fi than near horizon scale.
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MLeake is on the right track. Firearms are the widely chosen tool for self-defense because they are currently the most effective choice.

However, I have been watching with great interest the work being done with ADW (area denial weapons). Not long ago the most effective one (kind of a focused microwave antenna that made the target's skin feel like it was on fire) was a truck-mounted affair. Lately, it has been brought down to a shoulder-fired weapon powered by a backpack. When they can get this down to a 5 lb device suitable for 60 seconds of run time, I will consider it a candidate for self defense against bears. Even if I took the same heat as the bear, the element of surprise might make it worth the pain. There is little aiming involved, so almost impossible to miss.

Heat-ray? Taser? Phasers may be just a decade away.

There is also a shotgun shell popularly known as "dragon's breath". It shoots a spout of flame out of a 12 gauge that has to be seen to be believed.

Dragon's Breath usually refers to a zirconium-based pyrotechnic shotgun round. When the round is fired, sparks shoot out for about 5 m (20 feet)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon's_Breath has the above quote and a nice nighttime picture.

Don't shoot one indoors, though. Liable to burn the whole place down.

Lost Sheep
 
See, no matter how good the non-lethal force is, it's still going to be lacking that "extra little something".

Let me give you an example.

Say we have a cop of 10 years from now. Or hell, let's say two cops. They each have a conventional gun similar to what we have now, and they each have a "supertaser" - 12rd capacity, fires one shot per second, TOTALLY drops people in their tracks and reliably doesn't kill while doing so. Range of, say, 40ft.

These are WAY better specs than anything we have now!

Our two hypothetical cops are called to a bar fight. Turns out there's 20 drunk gangbangers armed with clubs and knives in full-on berserker mode.

Which weapon are the cops going to pull?

If you guessed "conventional gun", you're a winner. Can you see why?

Because either way, "supertaser" or gun, if the whole mob charges 'em with absolute determination to kill, the cops are dead. The sole difference is, with real guns the first half dozen or so are themselves going to be dead or at least seriously hurt.

It's about threat level, boys and girls. Unless you can convince a goblin that after you tase 'em you're gonna to take out a dull serrated pocket knife and cut their balls off, threatening them with a taser when you're outnumbered is just not a valid threat. Threatening to blow holes in them is a whole 'nuther matter. And yeah, WAY over 90% of the time the threat is enough, whether we're talking cop's guns or CCW holders. Lots of cops draw guns while on duty, far fewer have to shoot.

So unless you show me a "phaser" that can be set on "extra crispy" in a manner that TELLS the other party that it's going to BBQ their butts, I'll stick with a plain ol' bangthing thanks all the same.
 
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