Alliant 300-MP for 44 magnum

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FoghornLeghorn

New member
I have an unopened bottle of this powder and want to craft some loads for a Henry lever rifle in 44 mag. Generally I use Unique for handguns and load down to the lower end of the spectrum. E.g. for 44 mag my favorite load is a 240 grain SWC ahead of 7 grains Unique.

But my reloading data books don't list 300-MP and the Alliant website only gives the maximum charge of 25 grains for 1570 fps. Do any of you have data for minimum charge? I'd like to use the powder for my Ruger Super Blackhawk as well. Same cartridge/both guns in the field.
 
Alliant says reduce by 10% for starting loads. While 300-MP does not carry the reduced load warnings of 110/296, I would not expect it to work well or consistent below that level. Going for anything less than a full power load with that powder might not be any easy path to duplicating your Unique load with it.
 
Thanks. I don't want to duplicate the Unique load. I'm just looking for user's input concerning the powder/cartridge, etc.

Shooting full power loads out of the Henry is no biggie. But as I get older I don't enjoy full power magnum loads out of my handguns.

But thanks, I'll start out with 10% below max.
 
Foghorn

You do realize that the load you are quoting is for a 240 gr. GoldDot....not a cast SWC. Cast vs. Plated (GDots are plated) hit peak pressure at different charge levels....usually lower.
 
Alliant says reduce by 10% for starting loads.
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Agree. It's more than Alliant making this recommendation. The 10% reduction rule is fairly universal, in situations like this. Therefore, if it were me, I'd start at 22.5 grains.

While 300-MP does not carry the reduced load warnings of 110/296, I would not expect it to work well or consistent below that level (-10%).
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Agree. 300-MP is a BIG propellant. And it is to be run as such. I like the powder/gun combination - i.e. the lever action rifle. This is where 300-MP really shines. I actually don't recommend it for revolvers, unless the barrel is at least 7.5"; preferably longer.

Where I do have a concern is the lead bullet. That's the show-stopper for me. I imagine the lead slug leaving the gun as a molten ball - half its original weight. The other half laying in the grooves of the barrel :p.
 
300 MP is similar to using H110/WW296.....they all like being loaded on the heavy side with the heavier bullets. Alliant says there are no warnings regarding reducing loads such as with H110/WW296, although it burns dirty in light loadings.

I would not be inclined to use it for cast bullets either....there are much better powders for such use.

It is an outstanding powder when used within its design range with jacketed bullets in the higher load ranges.

Should be a good choice for your rifle with jacketed bullets at the suggested 200 grn bullet or heavier.
 
You do realize that the load you are quoting is for a 240 gr. GoldDot....not a cast SWC. Cast vs. Plated (GDots are plated) hit peak pressure at different charge levels....usually lower.
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Absolutely I do realize that, but I disagree with your conclusion that cast bullets hit max pressure peaks at a lower charge level.

Most published data for cast bullets is extremely conservative because they have no idea what cast bullet you are using. Quality cast bullets of the proper construction and hardness for that application can use max jacketed , and will develop lower pressures than jacketed bullets as it requires less pressure to push them through the barrel. Working up from minimum is quite safe.

I've not used 300-MP, but with decades of using 110/296 with cast bullets, I would not hesitate to use MP-300 with cast.
 
Most published data for cast bullets is extremely conservative because they have no idea what cast bullet you are using.
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This is a new one on me. All the load data that I have seen specifies the bullet, either cast or jacketed, plus other critical components such as primer, case manufacturer, etc.

The one thing that is an unknown is the powder lot, which is moot anyways.
 
Where I do have a concern is the lead bullet. That's the show-stopper for me. I imagine the lead slug leaving the gun as a molten ball - half its original weight. The other half laying in the grooves of the barrel
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Nothing a gas check wont cure.
 
"...minimum charge?..." 25 minus 10% gives you the Start load of 22.5 for a 240 grain jacketed bullet. Says that on the Alliant "Warning" page.
Like SHR970 says, do not use jacketed data for a cast or plated bullet.
"...Quality cast bullets of the proper construction and hardness for that application can use max jacketed..." ABSOLUTELY NOT. Driving a cast bullet too fast is what causes leading. Makes no difference how hard the thing is. Max jacketed loads are WAAAAY too fast for any cast bullet. Won't melt the bullet, but it'll lead the barrel.
Alliant's site usually just doesn't have cast bullet data. 300-MP doesn't appear to be a popular .44 Mag powder either. Not seeing in on any of the reloading sites. Mind you, it is alleged to be the same powder as H110 and Win 296. Best you contact Alliant and ask about cast loads. 300-MP might just be no good for 'em.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx
The chances of you finding one load that both firearms will shoot well are slim, but you might get lucky.
 
Like TimSR, I have used cast bullets over max loads of H110/296 for many years. Very little in the way of leading, and accuracy is outstanding with the right combination of hardness and sizing.

Some of my revolvers have required a gas checked bullet and some did not.

I have had excellent results with 300mp in my Henry .45 Colt rifle, under a 285gr gas checked bullet.
 
Most published data for cast bullets is extremely conservative because they have no idea what cast bullet you are using.
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And in this case we do not know who's cast, what alloy, or what BHR the OP is using. What I do know is I have a Lymans manual that supports my statement and they specify the mold number and the alloy for those loads.

Personally, If I were to experiment with this powder, I would use starting loads with Gold Dots (since we have data) and down load from there to see how the powder performs. If it downloads well, we have a baseline to MORE SAFELY work with useing XYZ cast.
 
ABSOLUTELY NOT. Driving a cast bullet too fast is what causes leading. Makes no difference how hard the thing is. Max jacketed loads are WAAAAY too fast for any cast bullet.
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Really? Hardness has nothing to do with where that "too fast" point is? Just tried out my Penn Bullets 340gr 454 alloy Casull bullets over 25gr 296. Guess I wasted my money?

Seriously, been loading 44 magnum 240gr SWC over 24gr 296, and 357 mag 158gr over 17gr 296 for about 30 years, and 255gr SWC over 30gr of 296 in 454 Casull for about 10 years. I'm not sure what you are basing your projections on, but if you have done testing in this area, and experienced failures, you were a little quick to accept that all cast bullets are incapable without further exploration.
 
255gr SWC over 30gr of 296 in 454 Casull for about 10 years
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Your have never experienced problems with this load?

It is quite a bit under the recommended start load as published by Hodgdon.
 
Quote:
255gr SWC over 30gr of 296 in 454 Casull for about 10 years

Your have never experienced problems with this load?

It is quite a bit under the recommended start load as published by Hodgdon.
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Good catch! That was my load for 300gr XTP. My 255gr SWC load was actually 34gr, extrapolated from Freedom Arms data for non-Freedom Arms jacketed bullets in 250 and 260gr.

I should have added that when using jacketed, I'm looking at standard soft core jacketed bullets. Freedom Arms bullets (no longer made) are a unique thick jacketed hard cast core, and are made to handle 60 or 70,000 psi, and should not be looked at when extrapolating data for other bullets, except for the Hornady XTP-MAG and maybe a few others.

Interestingly Hornady lists a 250gr Bar X bullet with loads well under 30gr, but I have no idea what a Bar X bullet is.
 
Thanks for clarifying. I would never recommend anyone loading that low with WW296/H110.

I have tried, but it is verify messy and I expected the results.

The Barnes X bullet is very similar in construction the the TSX et. al.

Solid copper and I would expect that different load data applies as does with the rifle bullets. Never had the need to try them personally.
 
The Barnes X bullet is very similar in construction the the TSX et. al.

Solid copper and I would expect that different load data applies as does with the rifle bullets. Never had the need to try them personally.
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That makes perfect sense, now, as to why they could handle such a small charge. That 250gr bullet has got to be a LOT longer than any lead core bullet of the same weight, leaving little vacant space in the case.
 
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