All outta Bullseye. Not getting any more.

N

Nick_C_S

New member
Today I loaded 100 185gn DEWC's for 44 Special; followed by 314 148gn DEWC's for 38 Special. That exhausted my supply of Bullseye.

A quick history. I'll try to be brief . . . I first started loading in 1984. I started with the whole spectrum of Alliant (then Hercules) pistol/shotgun powders - Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, Herco, and Blue Dot. I soon discovered Winchester powders and started using W296 for my big magnum loads and W540 (a.k.a. HS-6 now days) for my in-betweeners. I took a liking to Winchester propellants but still used Bullseye for target shooters. Then I discovered W231 (1987-ish) and that was a game-changer for me. I stopped using Bullseye.

As time when on, I was down to just three powders: 231, 540, & 296. And then two - dropping the 540. Then life happened around 1990 and my shooting dropped way off. I only went to the range a few times a year and it was almost always with my 1911 45 ACP. So all I was using - and not much, at that, was W231.

In Sep '12, I found myself with the time to get back into shooting - just a few months before the big shortage kicked in. I never knew there were previous shortages and so it caught me flat footed. In my scramble to find powders during the peak of the shortage (lots of standing in line before my LGS opened on Fri mornings), I managed to collect up a bunch of powders.

Fast forward to post-shortage: I had 13 powders; and every one did at least one thing really well. Anyway, I looked at my powder selection and I have found it all to just be too much. I like simplicity. I decided it was time to simplify. Here's what I had/have . . .

Super Fast:
Nitro 100
VV N-310

Fast:
Bullseye
W231/HP-38
AA#2
TiteGroup

Intermediate:
Unique
AA#5
Power Pistol
HS-6

Slow:
AA#7

Magnum:
2400
W296

I have lots of powders and it will take years to pare it all down (a good problem to have indeed). But eventually, I plan on being down to just four powders . . .

Super Fast
VV N310

Fast
W231/HP-38

Intermediate
Power Pistol

Slow
(none)

Magnum
2400

A couple months ago, I ran out of W296 - but still have lots of ammo loaded with it. My phase out of this one is a little different than the others. I'm replacing it with 2400 because my shooting style changed to shorter barreled guns and a desire for a little less recoil. It wasn't because of a "shortage buy." In fact, I only recently bought the 2400 for the first time ever. It's a little faster and a little more versatile - just what I need for my change in shooting style with magnum revolvers.

Today, I ran out of Bullseye - but I have over 1000 rounds loaded with it. Bullseye is great stuff and there will always be a place in my heart for it. But I only use it for lead target wadcutters (38/44 Special) and Nitro 100 and V V N-310 both run cleaner - especially the N-310 (hence, why I'm keeping it).

The next powder I'll likely exhaust is HS-6 (I have a little over a #). I use a lot of it, but it's not a versatile powder. Power Pistol is much more energetic, versatile, and clean. HS-6 also needs a magnum primer in revolver cartridges. Between that, and dumping W296, I will no longer have a need to buy mag primers (wasn't a goal; but is a nice convenience).

Nitro 100: I have three 12oz containers - should last over a year. It's super fast and will be replacing Bullseye for all my lead (and plated) target ammo. But when it's gone, Vihtavouri N-310 will be replacing it. No powder in its speed range runs cleaner. Love the stuff. And because it's expensive, it is less "exposed" to shortages. I don't mind the expense, btw.

AA#2 & TiteGroup: Both great powders, but both a little slow for my intended (pure target) application. Right now, I load all my plated range ammo with TiteGroup. I have a little over a # and will likely run out in about a year. W231/HP-38 will replace it. I have about two #'s of AA#2 and rarely load with it. It's fantastic for 9mm range ammo; but I don't 9mm often - except for carry gun practice.

Unique: Still have two #'s of it, and still trying to find a decent use for it. When the HS-6 runs out, I suppose I'll make high-power 45ACP 230's with it. It also makes decent 125gn 357 shooters. It'll likely be years before this stuff is finally gone. Power Pistol will replace it.

AA#5: Love the stuff. But I don't have much of a use for it. It's great for 124gn 9mm and 180gn 10mm range ammo. I have three #'s; so it'll be quite a while before it's exhausted. Power Pistol will replace it.

AA#7: I mostly use it for full-power 180gn 10mm. It's great for 147gn 9mm, but I just don't shoot a lot of those. It's also good for "near magnum" 357 (125 & 158); but nothing Power Pistol or 2400 can't do reasonably well. I have almost three #'s, so it could be years before it's exhausted.

So who thinks I'm crazy dumping any of these above powders? Or, who thinks I'm crazy to keep any of the four that I am?
 
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I'm all for simplicity. I have no experience with any of the powders you started, as I only load for 1 rifle (at the moment... Started loading about 6 months ago) but I have and keep 2 powders. 1 for blasting, and my target powder, even though my target powder is cheaper(h4350), the imr4451 is easier to find.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
Funny you list nitro 100 as being expensive.

I found it very cheap, and I ended up buying way too much of it. Now I can't shoot it all off. Works great for making soft recoil rounds. The soft recoil makes it a good round for shooting that requires fast target reacquisition.

Most of the time, a full power BANG is much more fun, though.

Simplification is probably a good thing. You're being quite reasonable.
 
Powder

Its hard for me to change to different powders, when i have a super accurate loading already worked up. 44 mag/W296 and 357 mag/2400 , plus 45 acp/Bullseye. Plus maybe a few others. With the shortage, been using 700X and 800X while i wait for the supply to return to normal, if thats ever possible? Its good that i purchased shotgun powders, in large amounts, to fall back on.
 
I never really delved into all the powders available. I pretty much stuck with 3 powders for pistol and 4 different powders for my rifles. There will always be a place on my shelf for Bullseye.
 
Funny you list Nitro 100 as being expensive.
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I mentioned Vihtavouri N-310 as being expensive. Nitro 100 is rather economical.

Knowing your full-auto shooting style Machineguntony, I'm surprised you even bothered to try the super fast Nitro 100. All I use it for - or will even attempt to use it for - is pure target pooper-poppers. It runs clean without the residue of Bullseye. But, when you turn it way down, it'll suddenly start leaving behind unburnt propellant, when the Vihtavouri N-310 won't.

And as far as expense goes for the N-310 - the powder is the least expensive component. So it adds one, maybe two cents per round. No biggie.
 
Except for situations that require a specific powder, I just buy whatever is available and suitable.
For most shooting I do, it doesn't really make a difference to the brand of powder as long as it is designed for the intended purpose.
Kind of like brands of gasoline for my car.
I never liked the idea of having too much of it around either, since home builders seem intent on attached garages these days. :eek:
 
I always enjoy reading your posts Nick . They seem detailed and researched . As you know I've been struggling with pistol powders as I only started loading pistol a year and a half ago or so .

At the time I started I only could find Longshot and Auto comp . Neither all that great for 9mm and 45acp which is all I load for as far as hand gun loads . I have since bought and tried a few more powders with Titegroup being one of my favorites . I for the first time got my hands on 3# of HP-38 a couple weeks ago . I'm looking forward to trying it out in both cartridges .

So with my limited experience in this field I do have powders that I will continue to buy and others I have no intentions on buying again .

Will continue to buy

Titegroupe
HS-6
and assuming HP-38/231


Not likely to buy again unless it's all there is

Auto comp
Longshot
WSF

Still on the fence

CFE pistol

Powders I'd still like to try

N-320
Bullseye
 
for the first time got my hands on 3# of HP-38 a couple weeks ago.
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You won't be disappointed. W231/HP-38 is great stuff. I currently have over 11 #'s of it. Since I bought my first # in 1987, I've never been without. Right now, I'm only using it for 178gn (not a typo for 158 - I mean 178) LSWC's for 38 SPL, and my oldest pet load for 200gn LSWC's for 45 ACP. For other similar applications where I'd likely use W231/HP-38, I'm using up the powders that I plan on discontinuing (Nitro 100 for lead; TiteGroup for plated). Therefore, I bet my supply of W231/HP-38 will last at least a half-dozen years - minimum.

As far as your situation with 9mm and 45 ACP goes, W231/HP-38 is great stuff. It prefers lighter bullets for 9mm - stick with 115's and 124's. 115's are right in its wheelhouse. 124's will do great if you keep them to "range level" potency. It'll do 147's too; but expect modest velocities and a steep pressure curve.

For 45 ACP, it'll run great for all bullet weights and metal profiles (lead, coated, plated, jacketed). It'll do everything except wide-open-throttle heavies. Then and only then would you need to move to an intermediate speed propellant (like HS-6).

Enjoy your HP-38.
 
You're not crazy. I understand your choices but I would go on another path. But then again, your loading style and mine have some differences. The good thing is that you have a good data set should another shortage hit and have to play the substitution game.

In the first of the current shortages I got very low on W231. Then conveniently the widow of a friend made me an offer I couldn't refuse. 2K CCI 209's, nearly 2 lb. Red Dot, 2 lb Green Dot and a pound of Herco.....$40. I knew that I could feed the Red and Green to my 12's, Green and Herco to my 20's and there was plenty I could do for pistol even though I had mixed results in the past. I literally stumbled into a great plink load for my 44 Mag. with Red. I also found some good 32 S&W loads with Red and Green. These weren't my preferred powders but I knew from past experience they were SUITABLE powders.



I didn't have a shot at the presses as they were given to a close friend. But the powder came at a great time.
 
The good thing is that you have a good data set should another shortage hit and have to play the substitution game.
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You got that right! I've done a lot of load work ups during the last 3+ years with all these different types of powders I've used.

For most shooting I do, it doesn't really make a difference to the brand of powder as long as it is designed for the intended purpose.
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So true. "Intended purpose" being the operative term. Every powder I have does at least one thing exceedingly well. Except maybe Unique :p.
 
I have to agree with the other posters. Your posts are always insightful and useful. Well...to me they are.:)

I've used several of the powders that you typed about. I'm still in a bit of a "too many powders" situation. I'm working towards narrowing it all down to a few (maybe 4 will be right for me too) that will do everything I want to do. I have to first learn to stop buying powders I find in stores to try something "new" to me.

With out a doubt the best I've used in a very large array of applications is W231/HP-38. Fantastic stuff all the way from .380 to .44 mag for me. Thanks to your info. I am a big fan of 2400 in .44 and .357 as well.
 
Let me add another thumbs up for Nick_C_S. I enjoy your posts also.

This forum has many very insightful and good writers/posters.

When I bought the Nitro 100, I had no idea what I was buying. But I read your post again, and I realized I misread what you wrote regarding the V310 vs Nitro 100.

Your post here inspired me to load up some pistol rounds with a different powder. Since the beginning of the year, I've been using AA5.
 
Since the beginning of the year, I've been using AA5.
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Great stuff, that AA#5.

Works great for 124gn 9mm. I suspect - and you may know better than I - that it would work great with 115's through a carbine. I also like it in 45 ACP with all weights - as long as you're loading them up pretty good. But what I use it the most is for 10mm - 180gn plated. They are exceptional "85%" range shooters. Super clean; super consistent.

It's kind of funny that AA#2 is slow for a fast powder; and AA#5 is fast for an intermediate powder. Therefore, the two aren't really very far apart in burn rate.

Back to the AA#5 - the stuff meters great and runs real clean if you're using it anywhere near its intended application. A real pleasure to work with all-around.

I also have to give AA#5 honorable mention with 357 Magnum. I did a low-flash/low-recoil defense loading work up for my 686 3" bbl. And I achieved just that. With 158gn XTP's, I got them up to 1097 f/s through that 3" (1159 f/s 4") with low flash and very manageable recoil - both important but underrated characteristics to have in defense ammo. No these aren't barn-burners. But I certainly wouldn't want to be in front of a 158 XTP cruising along at nearly 1100 f/s.

I have about three #'s of AA#5 remaining. And other than my 10mm loading, I really don't use it much. Thus, it'll be a few years before I run out. When that day comes, the plan is to switch over to Power Pistol.
 
I've sort of taken a different approach. I have a large variety of powders and love working up all the different loads. But I also have my pet loads that I like best and have the large amounts of powder for most of my shooting. Once I work up a load I just stash the more odd powders for future emergencies and buy large amounts of my favorites. This way I shoot a lot using the best loads, and have the less favorable powder stashed if the better ones aren't available and I already have loads worked up for them.
 
I enjoy tinkering with a variety of powders, and, during the great powder shortage of 2012-2016 I used some that I would have never considered if the more common ones weren't available.
I like keeping it simple though and could easily get by with 5 pistol powders if I absolutely had to.
They would be Bullseye, HP38/231, power pistol, 2400, and Trail Boss
 
I love power pistol but I'm starting to gravitate to BE-86 for 9 & .45.
for my .44 I get all I need/want from H110 but I've never tried 2400
 
I'm loading 8 Lbs. of Bullseye, new to me, one 9mm at a time. BE dust is pretty easy to remove but I too prefer 231.

My AR build has me gravitating to rifle. I like Varget. I load 45-70 and have started the brass for .308. I'm trying the old H-335 (?) and new CFE223 for .223. That will wait for the dies.
 
Yep , I've already reduced my rifle powders to about 4 ( IMR-4895 , 4064 , 4350 and H-335 . Like Nick with pistol loads . I've got lots of data on different rifle powders and bullet combo's . I went with those 4 because of there availability and how well they work for my applications ( 223/5.56 , 30-30 , 308 , 270 ).
 
Hey Nick, I use N310 in my .380 loads. @2.5gr~ per round... a 4lb jug goes a heck of a long way. It is extremely clean burning, one reason I've liked it. I just hope I can find it locally again if in the next 10yrs I run out of it! :D

I'm kinda experimenting in my powders... I've gone to BE-86 for 9mm and .40 S&W. The one powder that's being moved out of my lineup is W231. I will always have use for it, especially if the preferred powder is scarce, but to me that's the beauty of W231... Kind of like Unique, pretty darn versatile just not as dirty.
 
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