All of You NY'er, KALIF'ers, New ENG, and IL'ers

H

hube1236

New member
Ok- rant engine fired up! Pardon the spelling, I am too pissed to care.

I am sick and F&*^#(&*# tired of politicians "Doing it all for the children!" I have, and you people need to write letters: to the editor, to that cow b#@ch rep from NY, to that Nazi mayor of chicago, etc, that if they are so F&*#^#ing concered about the children, why is the average public- grammar school teacher salary less than $25K. Why do we routinely introduce into society illiterate dumbasses who were raised in poverty and will continue to live in poverty because the only thing they can do is to pick up is a GUN or a heavy stick. Some make it out, most do not.

The only thing in this country that should be "socialized" is the public school system, yet how much a a great big SIN would it be if we stopped fu&*&#ing preaching tax cuts and put the money where it belongs. We still would have capitalist system, we would still have those who do not succeed, we still would have garbage men and busboys, but at least we would help elevate the level of thinking in this country from fourth grade temper tantrums to maybe 8th grade reasoning. (My grandfather never made it past the 6th, he was one of the smartest people I ever knew, just think if he had that eighth grade diploma.)

If they are really concerned with children, then prove it. Stop dumbing down society, there are still facets of life in the US that can be seen and felt without having to show up in a hunter green, tan interior Jeep Grand Cherokee. If we can not vote these pigs out of office, we may be able to start using their logic against them.

Stop treating the symptoms (gun violence) and cure the cause (stupidity and ignorance by our grammer school graduates).

While Pataki, Bill, and Rosie are showing more than a casual disinterest in the Constitution, as well as the FBI who is putting this letter in my file, we should be preaching education- not just gun, but openly taunt the piss poor inner city standardized test achievements of the school systems under these gun grabbers.

Rant off.
 
The school system is one of the biggest follies to come out of the last half of the 20th cent (around mid-70s, wasn't it?). That's where they can propogandize our children from the get-go...that's their lynchpin for taking our money and using it "for the children."

A more accurate version of their famous catch phrase should be, "Let's do it TO the children, through their parents."

The Department of Education needs to go.

As does the IRS.
 
Geez, you're going to have to learn to come out of your shell, and tell people what you really think...

As I see it, the whole problem is the very concept of the "public school system." While the Department Formerly Known as Justice goes after Microsoft, the government runs probably the largest monopoly in the world; the school system. The government discourages competition; it promotes - indeed, requires - catering to the lowest common denominator in the interest of "fairness"; it conjures up the Establishment Clause bogeyman behind every voucher system; it subverts discipline under the guise of the Idividuals with Disabilities in Education Act; it stresses self-esteem-building over actual learning; and it generally makes a complete mess of a program in which it has no Constitutional right to be involved. The problem is less about teachers squeezing only $25k/yr out of the taxpayer trough than it is shutting down that trough and letting schools compete on a level playing field for teachers, students, and resources. Until we get the feds out of the classroom, and thereby the politicians out of the pocket of the teachers' unions, foregoing tax cuts in the hopes of improving education merely by bolstering teachers' salaries will continue to be throwing good money after bad.

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Every nation has the government it deserves. - Joseph de Maistre
 
Just for the record, let's look at what the real reason the public school system was developed. At the end of the nineteenth century, most schools were either private or what was referred to as "common schools". Common schools were the responsibilty of the community that it was located. The community provided the building, hired the teachers, established a curriculum based on the needs, morals and ideals of the community. The community had DIRECT control over the school. As alluded to above, the school was a mirror of the morals and values of the community which it served.

Then, the industrial base of the country increased, there was mass immigration into the cities. Industrialists were "concerned" that this new pool of cheap labor (immigents and lower classes of natural born citizens)were not recieving the type of education that lended itself toworking in the factories. The education system was centered around an agricultural system. Also, there were literally bands of immigent children that could not be enrolled into many schools because their parents were not citizens. The large city politicians heard the cries of the industrialists, and the clamor of the citizenry "to get those immigrent children off the streets", and low and behold public education was born. The goal of the original public school system was to train the poorer classes in the skills they needed (minimum levels) to work in the factories of the East. Primarily the three R's...reading,writing and arithmatic.

The common schools in the rural parts of the country still maintained a higher standard than their city counter parts. Because of local control. And to cut this short, you all know the rest. Using the power of the tax dollar, the gubbermint stuck their noses into the school systems large and small. The schools are now dependent on State and Federal dolars to operate. The communities have lost control of the school systems.

It is not a long stretch to see that the centralized school system was intended to a force of social control and populace indoctrination. Although school district will always deny this, they are stooges of the whims of the federal system and parrot what ever half backed, ill concieved social dogma that is trendy at the time. Because it comes from the Department of Ed.

And as far as the complaints about the political system in the North East, as an expatriate New Yorker, all I can say is "GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR!". We had any number of chances to get rid of the left wing, semi-socialist politicians for DECADES! We didn't do our home work, we didn't make the one more political challenge, we didn't make that one extra phone call to praise or protest, we fell asleep on watch and the inmates took over the asylum. Because we were asleep, the allowed the sheeple traded our freedoms for government handouts and accepted the lies about security for freedom. That's why I left. New York is one of the most beautiful states in the Union. But, it holds no attraction for me.

Oooops, got way off track here. You guys can figure the rest out.



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You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
 
I also am an ex-New Yorker.

I guess what I am saying is that it would be great if we could return to the glory days of 18th century life in the US. That is not going to happen. The public school system is here, right or wrong it is going to stay. Let's stop discussing how nice it would be to return to what or whenever.

It has been widely accepted that my parents (attended public schools in NYC in the 50's) basic level of education was better than mine would have been. What has changed, is what has been iterated by you guys, feel- good instead of learn well. blah, blah, blah. In order to go on the offensive, we (gun flok) can not continue to flout NRA statistics (even if they are accurate) ;)

We have to put responsibility on the govt and the 'moms' to start educating and stop beefing up ego's that do not deserve boosts. I graduate, I got B's, I go and compete against whitey or a man, I do not get the job because I can't read- although I got B's). I live in a gutter, I can notwork for more than $6.25 and hour. My self-esteem is in the toilet.

This cycle, I am sure, repeats itself enough, where, if I wanted to take Rudy on in a debate about guns, I could continuously uppercut him with lack of social mobility prospects- BROUGHT ON BY HIS ADMINISTRATION. I could pull an anti- and accuse him of murder because he and Moynihan refuse to address the cause- THEIR OWN POLICIES.

I guess I am not advocating P.S.'s I am advocating using their failure against gun grabbers, because it is the wrong approach to solving the problem (banning guns). The correct approach is giving altenatives to violence. People of means (on the norm) do not shoot people for SS checks.
 
I currently live in NY. Our teachers locally are paid verry well, much higher than the national average. The schools still produce illiterates.

Paying someone more money to do the same poor work is not the answer. Get the govt out of the classroom and force the Teachers to produce results or loose their jobs is the answer.

We spend too much on our government.


Geoff Ross

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One reason to vote in the next Presidential election.

It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!
 
I'm all for higher pay, but it's true that it alone will be no solution. Still....take my wife, for instance. She was offered two jobs today. Both are jobs she'll love--one as a special ed resource teacher and one as a classroom teacher for a class of autistic kids from all over the county. Both are offered through the local SASED (Sangamon Area Special Education District) so both pay the same wage--about $22,000 per year, before taxes and other deductions. The job I interviewed for but didn't get paid slightly more--but only because I would have been a coach, so we're talking about another $1000 per year for an extra, what, 20-25 hours per week?

Now, here's the problem. I'll do the same job for that $23,000 that I'd do for 50, if I can. I like to think I'll do a great job and be a challenging teacher, and that I'll get great results. But the teacher who's just sliding by, under the present system, ALSO thinks she's doing a great job and would also do the same job if she were paid far more. Paying her more is not the answer. The only reason paying her more will do any good is that when her dead ass retires or is fired, a higher caliber of applicant may wish to take her place. At present, such people have to be in love with teaching even to try it. Hell, I DO love it and sometimes I still wonder why I want to do it--I scrimped and saved and worked my butt off to get through school and here I am applying for $23,000 per year and heaping mountains of disrespect. Everyone I know will be telling me how they would do my job if they were in my shoes. Parents will call me wrong and stupid, and other parents will accuse me of abuse, especially if I coach. I stand a good chance of being attacked physically by at least one parent and much more often by students.

Come to think of it, why AM I trying to get this job? Why don't I apply to manage a hardware store or something?
:mad:
 
I read the topic line, and I read the rant...now I wonder what hube is trying to say? That the education system in these states sux?
My family has been involved in education in the New England area for a very long time. And let me tell you one thing, it's not lazy, do-nothing teachers that are the problem. You won't improve education by requiring teachers to 'do their job'. The vast majority of teachers I know work day, night, weekends, whether or not school is in session, trying to do their job.
The problem(s) are manifold: Families where one or neither parent is seldom at home to help and encourage the kids in their learning. Lack of positive family reinforcement. Lack of discipline (It isn't and shouldn't be the school's responsibility to teach elementary respect for others, but society seems to expect it.) Lack of intellectual interest, caused by popular culture that encourages interest in trash, dismisses reading and life-long learning as elitist and effete, and presents the young with role models that are idols to self-indulgence, laziness, and irresponsibility.
The schools are better than they have ever been, the teachers more caring (yes, I know there are exceptions) and better prepared and more professional than any time in my lifetime. But being presented with students who don't want to learn, strive, excel, or even offer elementary respect, the schools are unable to graduate into society a dependable pool of functionally literate, culturally aware and intellectually alert citizens.
Educators who try to impose order and discipline are vilified and resisted. Standards are set by politicians on school boards, who are products of the schools they now oversee...and so the cycle perpetuates itself in a widening gyre.
Don't blame the schools. They could do their job if they were given the authority and the quality of students that 'used to be'.
 
Hube1236,

Money has nothing to do with it.

A loving and stable homelife, with implied and explicit moral authority; teaching manners and valuing education has a better chance of a good outcome. This combined with a solid standards based curriculum will most likely to produce a better citizen.

However it is likely too late.... Unless you can pry Both the adults and the children from Television , spectator sports ( circus), and halt the cries for Government care and intervention in our lives (Bread), you will most likely fail...
 
You all have me, the school systems in this country, especially New England are superb. I am not saying money alone is going to change that, INFACT I DID NOT SAY DIRECTLT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

You are all missing my point. The NRA has you too tuned to dispelling my personal opinion with your "facts" and own opinions.

I know money is not the answer. The course to finding that out would be a good dog wagger. By the time we actually look beyond our portfolio's and pretty new Suburban, the guns are gone. The general populace needs (yes needs) something universally hated in order to come together, whether it is gays in the military, abortion, taxes, whatever. The anti-gunners are using child deaths. While you are all flaming my post on the schools, not one of you mentioned guns.

Got it yet, or do I need to type slower :rolleyes:

By end arounding their emotion- guns are bad- we can not control them, we need to ban them; with our sentiments (accurate or not (but close)) with your children are dying because you are a bad parent. You do not care about children's future by providing schools where student graduate more stupid than if we looked them in a dark closet.

I disagree with everybody here who says that "we are delaying the inevitable; we are fighting a losing battle," but refuse to change their tactics.

To the New England guy, I went to college and grad school in Worcester and Lowell- do NOT preach about public school systems there.
 
"...Every nation has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre

The first time I saw a variant of that expression was circa 1963, in A.E. VanVogt's "The Weapons Shop of Isher." It was a short story in "Famous Science-Fiction Stories--Adventures in Time & Space." It was also published as a novel, and either version, altho a bit archaic, are well worth reading.
I suppose I'm trying to point out that by electing Little Big Fraud, and then re-affirming it with re-election, America "got the government it deserved"--but that's a little too simplistic. There are a LOT of people who find Klintoon, Rosie, etc., repugnant, and there are a lot of decent people in America who surely don't deserve the bunch of crooks we currently are infected with.
There's no substitute for getting involved-- at the very least, Vote! Often! Write letters--I have gotten a lot of positive reinforcement from people after having letters published in the paper. Inform your neighbors and friends, and tell them to tell others.
I do believe we can turn this country around, but we all must throw our shoulders into the load and *shove*.
 
Just do what I did. I moved out of Illinois because they had gestapo cops and stupid laws. If everyone they pissed off packed up and moved to a real state, they would lose so many tax dollars that they would just fold under their own stupidity.
 
Originally posted by johnr:
"...Every nation has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre

"There are a LOT of people who find Klintoon, Rosie, etc., repugnant, and there are a lot of decent people in America who surely don't deserve the bunch of crooks we currently are infected with."

No argument. Unfortunately there are also a bunch more who prove H. L. Mencken's point(as long as we're quoting people), "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." There are people who honestly believe that lying under oath about sex doesn't matter; that the current prosperity was brought about by Clinton (much like the crowing of the rooster being responsible for the sun coming up); that 12 "children" a day die from gunfire (because Clinton said so, and Clinton is an honorable man); that inanimate objects (such as, oh, guns) are evil; that...well, you get the idea. For better or worse, we are "one nation, under God, indivisible..." However, I'm still wondering what happened to the "liberty and justice for all."

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Every nation has the government it deserves. - Joseph de Maistre
Click to expand...
 
You're misssing the whole point, I think.

You see, they don't want the system/s fixed ....

Let that hang there for a bit & just mull that one l'il ol' point, chew on it awhile ....

& you thought you were pissed before? ;)

Not jokin' here.

They. Don't. Want. It. Fixed.

Not education, not any of society's ills, not "gun safety," not nada, nope, none of it.

That's not their goal. So get over that & get used to it & get going on what works agin 'em.
 
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