Alien Gonzales and the RKBA

C

CassandraComplex

New member
I was thinking about something:

Not that this is necessariyla great argument to use at the moment, but the Alien Gonzales escapade has direct roots to the RKBA.

The reason is, the people involved in keeping Alien (family and otherwise) have implied that the gov't will not take Alien without force. They have stated that the gov't is afraid to come take Alien by force because "they don't want another Waco".

Well, let me ask you this: do you really think that Janet Reno would not have sent in her stormtroopers by now to take him by force, if they were NOT afraid of the fact that they know these people could shoot back?

The RKBA, here, is showing it's power right before our eyes. Setting aside our opinion on Alien, just look at the circumstances, if the gov't knew that they did not have guns (if we were, say, in another country), Janet Reno and her goons would have gone in long ago and taken Alien by force, perhaps a few days ago when Reno demanded that he be sent back to Cuba.
But, they won't do it. Why? Because of the RKBA. Janet Reno knows that those people, having stated that there would be another Waco, they very likely have assault rifles and all kinds of other arms in their home, and if she tried to send in federal agents to take Alien by force, there would be a shootout.


So, some people that say that the RKBA has nothing to do with modern times, and that the gov't is too powerful so they could kick our butts anyway by using Apache choppers and tanks. To contradict that statement, we have this as an example. These people are defending their perceived Rights, through the use of the RKBA. If there were no RKBA, they would have no way to hold Alien there while they fight the court battles. This is exactly what the RKBA was designed to do: to keep the gov't from being too powerful.

I don't really care or know about the Alien situation and the politics and opinions thereof. But, what I do know is that without the RKBA, it would not be an issue, because the gov't (Janet Reno's goons) would have kicked down their door and taken Alien by now.

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When they speak of instituting "common sense gun control laws" keep this quote in mind:

"A `common-sense' approach to gun violence in America would be to ban handguns,"
- Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center, (Washington Post, March 2000)
 
Here is the problem with that theory. Like most minorities, most Cubans do not believe in RKBA. In fact, it is taboo among the social elite in Cuban society. And, the problem is, in Miami, everyone want to be a wan-a-be. Those that have firearms are usually very quiet or be looked at as a hoodlum or gangsters. The social hierarchy is very important in Cuban society. Lots of showmanship, but no action. Like politicians!

Problem with Reno and most good Southerners is they forgot how to get into water sports, practice some switch hitting and let the K9's do some fetching.

Robert



[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
I believe that the (armed) Branch Davidians at Waco bought us a lot of freedoms with their life.
The gov't won't be willing to risk an escapade like that again any time soon.

I don't know much about Cuban culture, but all it would take is one or two of them with rifles to make a huge scene out of any attempt at grabbing Elian. I have a hard time believing that these people would come to America, learn our freedoms after experiencing their tyranny, and they would not keep and bear arms. At least some of them.
 
The sovereignty of a nation or a people is ultimately based upon that nation's or people's ability to apply force of arms in its defense of its citizens, its enforcement of laws, and its pursuit of goals.

Truly, the corridors of power are round, rifled, and wrought of iron.

-William
 
Robert the41MagFan... I believe that you are right when you say "most Cubans do not believe in RKBA"

but,, arn't the anti-castro groups ALPHA 66 & Omega 7 still active/exist down there?......
and if they do, wouldn't they be,most likly, better armed than the davidians were....
I tend to believe that they will have NO compunction about defending tit-for-tat if the BATF/FBI/Marshals go in without trying to talk to the family directly first and/or letting the courts proceed to a normal conclusion...
 
CHEMNCO917,

I am fast approaching 40, those two organization have been preparing to go back to Cuba and fight for about that same amount of time. In that time, only one man has had the courage to put his money where his mouth is, but chose to be a terrorist instead. This one individual, don't remember his name, shot a bazooka at a Russian freighter in the port of Miami and later blew up a Cuban jetliner in South America, where I believe he is rotting in a jail somewhere. These group have done absolutely nothing. Lots of bark and no action.

I think the sight of a little old ladies being knocked down by a water cannon, police swinging batons at protesters is what the government really fears. Does anyone see a double standard here? During the WTO protest in Seattle, the Fed had no problem ordering the cracking down on them. Now a group of minorities are illegally holding a 6 year old hostage in a home and because it may be viewed as racial, the government does nothing. Double standard?

The politic of those Cubans in Miami is a odd one, very complex. As usual it is not only about politics, but about money and power. The Cubans in Miami have some notion that American are going to send their young to die in Cuba and then just hand the island back to the Right-wing Aristocracy that killed democracy in Cuba in the first place.

Robert
 
thanks for the answer...
I only hear things about the Miami Cubans from my brother who is a Major in the Fl. State corrections division... He says some of the same things, except he is convinced that an underground group still exists....
He says that his beliefs stem from having to work with the Marial people....lots & lots of really bad people came ashore with that one!!

thanks again..
 
Firearms have nothing to do with it.

Thousands of protestors and the media coverage has everything to do with it.

Janet Reno does not need another scandal.

Bill Clinton knows it is an election year.

Erik
 
I agree with DerGlockenpooper and Robert the 41MagFan.

Because of Waco, they can't afford to employ those tactics anymore; it pisses too many sheep off when they kill the children and the innocent. They won't "Waco" the Gonzales' family, even though the likelihood is that the family is abusing Elian by using him to make a political statement, as documented in a recent letter by a doctor in the case.

Just the same, how many Americans could just tell the Feds to shove their court order up their a$$? Yes, there's a double standard here. These people will end up screwing up this kid's life, telling "our" government to go #@(% itself and then claim that they are victims of political persecution.

They have learned how to be "modern Americans." (Neo-Americans?)
 
Ledbetter

That doctor is a quack as psychologist or psychiatrist, he is practicing outside his license, as he is a pediatrician. Heck he hasn’t even talked to the boy or anyone in the Miami family for that matter

He is also part of the group of Doctors who were going to help MRS. Clinton do a government take over of health care.

If he has managed to get the right diagnosis then its a major break through in medicine. Just send a video tape to the doctor for diagnosis no need for an office visit. It will save patients millions and a Doctor can see 10 time the patients in a day.

As far as them not using force like they did in Seattle, didn’t the mayor tell the feds his police were not going to help, (by moving the Police above the fray the mayor has defused a lot of tension) and this group has stayed non violent to date. That can’t be said about the WTO protestors in Seattle. If you want my opinion, in Seattle you had the Feds agitating both sides to bring about that confrontation.


PS was there a court order??
Last time I check the INS Demanded the Attorney General demanded but no court had issued an order. The only court order that has been issued in this case that is currently not under appeal, is the one made yesterday. And I pretty much said that the INS is railroading this little boy and denying him his day in court.


[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited April 20, 2000).]
 
Alas. It is done.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
The Feds say that the reason the HKs were out was because of reports that the crowd and family had guns.

That said, the family should have let the kid
join the dad without all their histronic crap
and fought in the courts given the kid couldn't leave the country.
 
Glenn

Do you REALLY think that these Kidnappers For Castro will let a US Appeals Court stand in their way?
mad.gif


I've been out most of the day. I came home and saw the picture of the JBT with the MP5 and have had a REAL hard time calming down.

I've been a political junkie for 10 years now, but this is getting to a really SCAREY level.

Trying to keep my chin up.

Rick

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Guns cause crime like trailerparks cause tornados.
 
Glenn

Please do not take my last post as a flame. I'm just about ready to puke over this whole Elian deal.

Going to go hug my son now.

Rick

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Guns cause crime like trailerparks cause tornados.
 
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