ALERT!! Now is the time for all good citizens to come to the aid of their County!

S

sumabich

Moderator
:mad: :mad:
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Since I discovered the ability to find deals on guns and ammo on line I haven't frequented my local shops for a few months. I saw a gun the other night that I thought might be a cost effective replacement for the Colt 1911. Late this afternoon I stopped in at one of my local haunts who probably sells more guns than any other in our small town. As I walked in and took one look I knew something was wrong. He usually has 5 glass counters full of various hand guns and is usually the first to have new models. One, ONE lousy counter with 60% old model S/W. I asked what was up. He said he had been audited for 3 days by the ATF going back 6 years (laying the records on top of 3 counters and scaring all his customers away). They found nothing wrong with the record keeping (David's wife is meticulous)but before they left they told him the following. 1. ATF would be hiring 800 new enforcement agents so he could expect more audits, 2. he would have to restrict all access within so many feet of the guns to those under 18, 3. He would have to store all firearms and ammo in an APPROVED ATF Safe at night (would take him at least 3 hours to do that if he knew what was approved), 4. He would have to show proof of having a Million dollars in liability insurance. At present he has 100,000 which costs him $1,700 per year. He got an estimate for 1 million from his insurance agent and the cost would be nearly $10,000. David told me these rules would go into effect before the end of the year. He said "I give up". "The hell of it is I can't even sell those GD Smiths to anyone even at cost, nobody will buy them"!
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These are all rules promulgated by the executive branch and unless legislative action gets taken specifically to stop this crap it won't stop. They're making sure they close the small FFL down by making it too expensive to do business. I'm so :mad: I'm
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!!! What can we do to stop this? Technically the ATF is interferring with Interstate Commerce by imposing rules that favor the big dealers, but once they get it down to just a few they will have fewer targets to harrass. Has anyone else expressed this? Everyone, check your dealers and see what they say, see if they are aware of this. I am outraged and all gunowners should be. David said he called the other dealers in town and no one knew a thing about it. He was amazed because he is getting alerts from the NRA. I am ready for suggestions. But whatever we do we need to mount a massive effort that involves all the various groups.

Liberty requires vigilance!
 
All right, Gentlemen! There's well over 5,000 of us here. Get started writing, e-mailing and faxing your reps. Use the NRA-ILA site, or the GOA site. Right now, let's ALL send off a volley. I just sent a bunch this week, and it won't hurt to send some more.
 
Freedom Arms is now laying-off scores of employees due to massive legal costs...
One by one they'll fold.
Are we doing enough?
Is it that difficult to donate funds to those fighting for our rights? (many to choose from)
Is it that difficult to write some letter, send some faxes?
 
For any of you reading this, my ISP timed out on me and I wound up with a double post. I have e-mailed two of our moderators and asked them to delete one. Shin-Tao, as they say down here "I don't care what they say about you, you're alright"! On the other post they're telling me to have him contact his "congress critters". Unless we get some of them to sponsor a "no more laws against sales,buying and owning of guns" this won't help a bit. David has given up. But he did say that as soon as he was out of the gun business he plans to get vocal. Seems he's afraid of repercussions at this point if he does. I posted this because I saw this technique as typical of the current Clinton mind set. If he can't get it through Congress he writes an executive order,or orders higher controls through the executive branch. Wake up everyone, this is what the private gun owner will face too! Shin-Toa, "You Da Man"! Thanks Buddy!
 
I have written and called and encouraged others to do the same. I will continue to do this, but we need more. Every letter I write, I receive a patronizing reply that states that "Congressman So-n-So supports the 2nd Amendment and private gun ownership ..." then votes with the rest of the anti-human-rights group the next time gun control legislation is up. :mad: So can anyone tell me what else we can be doing?



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Refuse to be a "helpless" victim.
Knowing Your Rights WAGC in Indiana
Come have some fun at theTFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th & 13th, 2000
 
Sumabich: What gun shop is this? If they found nothing wrong with his shop, what happened to the other guns??

Blueyedog: I have some ideas as to what to do, but i doubt that they would be smiled upon by the majority. We can donate all we like, but until we get the courts to start overturning these laws and stop new laws from being passed by the socialists, we will be fighting a loosing battle.


If anyone wants my unpopular ideas, I will post them. Otherwise, we pretty much are fubar. There is no real way to defend against incrimentalism but by vigalance.
 
I can't say either.

Viva La Resistance!!!

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Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
Except for the 800 new enforcement agents, each one of those items mentioned by the ATF goons are stipulations of the S&W/Clinton/Cuomo deal. If any dealer divests himself of S&W inventory, none of those rules applies, legally. If a dealer does not do business with a party to that contractual farce, that dealer is not a party to it himself and not bound by it's terms.

This is my understanding. An attorney may tell me I'm all wet.

None of the forgoing lets us out of our obligation to do everything in our power to stop the madness.

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If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.
 
Earlier this year, Valley Guns of Baltimore MD was 'audited' by the BATF and they requested all of their records for the past x years. They won the case, even with an anti-gun judge. It was on the NRA Web page for a while. I know the lawyer who handled the case and will probably see him Tuesday night. Send me some more info and I may be able to hook them up, or contact the NRA. They supported Valley Guns.
 
Mike K, if you get a chance e mail me direct, my email address is posted here. I will be happy to fill in the details. Thank you to all who have responded already. To answer a few of the questions raised already "yes,no,yes,yes" Ok, I'm being a smart-ash! You are correct in the S/W deal, but according to David they didn't even mention it was because he had S/W (pre agreement guns)they were applying the rules for everything! One could argue that depending upon the agent or jurisdiction the interpretation might be different, but the point is that this is their interpretation and that is what he has to deal with. The implications are easy to see that if all agents have this interpretation it will in effect close down all small dealers as well as gunshows due to economics. David has made up his mind to quit and I don't think that decision can be changed. He feels he will have a better chance fighting as a private citizen because of the implied threat if he has his FFL. He like most small dealers, don't have the money to spend on a protracted legal defense and is worried that he would be dealing with federal charges if he tries to do anything at this point. I gave him this link yesterday and tried to let him know he was not alone in this but I don't think words are going to change this situation. I hope that better minds will prevail on this one. I wanted to make all aware of what's comming for all of us in the near future. Also want you all to check with your dealers to see if we have a pattern shaping up here. I think we would have a better case with the legislature if we can show they are applying these rules in other parts of the country.
 
I think it my be a good idea in our letters to mention that gun owners are usualy very grateful for actions that preserve their rights. Mention that gun owners would actively support any politico that took a real stand for The Second.
At this point all other policy issues should be secondary. Without RKBA the political class will be even less inclined to bother finding out what the citizenry desires.
The struggle to preserve our right to firearms ownership, we should ignore party lines. ANY politico who takes a stand should be supported(rewarded)for his/her courage. It no longer matters if it is a Republican or a Democrat. The differances between these two parties are insignificant anyway.
 
From the above article,

"They plan to ask for about a half million dollars in funding next year to support their operations against domestic terrorism."

I wonder if "domestic terrorism" consists of any action by two or more people considered a threat to the careers of those in the current oligarchy.

We need to vote these buggerin' buggers out of office.
 
Egads. Look sharp, you blokes. Sound the general alarm. Battle stations everyone. Warn the sheeple. There may be "patriots" lurking about! Horrors :)

Here's my fave:"But it may be the price required to stay both free and safe from American terrorism." NEWSPEAK at its finest.
Wonder what other "prices" we're going to be asked to pay in the next few years.

Ok, yes, like some postal workers, some patriots can be whackos too. But depending on which suit is doing the talking, every person who posts here could potentially be a "domestic terrorist." I can see the story now:

Last night members of the FBIs elite domestic counterterrorism squad seized a number of high-powered assault and sniper rifles and customized handguns in a raid on a home near Charlotte.

Numerous scoped rifles in military calibers were taken, as well as several pistols whose sights and triggers had been professionally modified to "shoot more accurately and quickly," enabling a reasonably skilled gunman to hit multiple targets in a very short period of time.

Although quickly isolated from the press, this reporter managed to talk to one of the men who had been in the house at the time of the raid: "Uh, a few members of our hunting club came over to get Randy to tap for some scope mounts before deer season. He was also lettin us use his reloading equipment. We had finished mounting the scopes and were watching a bad John Candy movie on Showtime when--" At this point, the interview was ended by agents.

Federal sources say a "sizeable" amount of reloading equipment, including numerous cans of highly explosive and dangerous gunpowder, were also seized.

When asked what led police and federal agents to the comfortable $200,000 home in the upscale suburb, SWAT captain I P Frehley told this reporter, "A college student delivering 10 large pizzas reported seeing many weapons in the home while delivering the order that included Canadian bacon, sausage, and extra cheese. The student reported hearing what he thought was many people in the house, as though some large gathering was taking place."

When asked if there was a legitimate purpose for an ordinary citizen's stockpiling weapons and ammunition, Frehley said he didn't know and couldn't comment further. "But the Canadian bacon has us worried," Frehley went on to say. "We don't even know what Canadian bacon is. I mean, it ain't, you know, bacon. And the student reported hearing what he thought was Canadian French being spoken in the house. We've sent the alleged bacon to Quantico for analysis, along with the pizza boy."

Also seized in the raid were a copy of the radical, anti-government manifesto Unintended Consequences, which advocates murdering federal employees, a worn Confederate battle flag, and the resident's video collection which includes such titles as "Red Dawn," the infamous Tonya Harding x-rated "Honeymoon tape," "300 Yard Shots for Whitetails," and "Waco: Rules of Engagement."





[This message has been edited by Franklin W. Dixon (edited June 10, 2000).]
 
The reason I thought there might be a connection to the original topic:

1. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What makes it more difficult is that often the most dangerous groups are small, making them tough to detect in the growing Charlotte region.[/quote]

Maybe by checking gun sales records we can identify these small groups? Also, tighten up the gun supply to stop further growth of groups?

2. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The FBI is about to announce a domestic terrorism task force to protect Charlotte and Western North Carolina. [/quote]

It appeared to me that the shop mentioned might be in this target area.

3.One of my favorite lines: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"We know about certain organizations that are right up to the line. Those we'll focus our resources on," said FBI agent Chris Swecker.[/quote]

What is this line? Is it based on a consistent set of standards, or does it move to suit the FBI?

4. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The FBI says their task force will include the Charlotte-Mecklenburg police force. They will bring in additional agents as well.[/quote]

Talk about federal control of local forces. Does anyone believe that the local police will be in charge?

5. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Agents say Charlotte could be a target for terrorists, not because it is a major banking center, but because it is so close to where militia groups gather.[/quote]

Can anyone from NC tell me where this gathering point is? I never knew that "militia groups" gather in a specified area. This may be important information in the future.

Dave



[This message has been edited by DHH (edited June 10, 2000).]
 
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