Alert! - My trusty, rusty H&K

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huge

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For the past few weeks, I have been extensively shooting a new H&K USP Expert. I had a lot of preconceived notions about it before I bought it--my first H&K. Some were valid, some didn't work out. For several days, I carried it against my skin in a Hume belt slide holster made for a Glock, wiping it down with a Sentry Tuff cloth each night. When I field stripped it after the next shooting session, I found the beginnings of rust on the bottom and back of the slide stop. Apparently my skin is a more "hostile environment" than the HE finish could handle. This afternoon, I was sharing the story with some guys at the local range. Two of the gentlemen are LEO and carry USP's daily. Both immediately field stripped their pistols and found rust on the back of their slide stops. Damage ranged from minor to "rusted like a son of a gun". I have ordered a custom belt slide holster with a leather sweat shield for those times when I carry this marvel. I also lavish extra attention and either FP10 or TSB25 on the back of the slide stop on a regular basis. I thought this alert might be helpful to others. Hugh
 
PLEASE tell me more about this gun. I have been wanting to buy one. But, I need to know if it is really worth the money.
The thing is, I am a Glocker to the core, and I can make a Glock sing in my hand, but I am not sure that even someone that is a master Glocker can make it shoot as well as an HK Expert.
Is the Expert really that accurate?
I am torn between a Glock 21 and a HK Expert. It would be no decision, considering that the Expert is an awesome gun, but being a Glock Armorer and the fact I can strip a Glock with my teeth as well as bring out it's full potential in my hand, I am not sure if the HK Expert would really shoot any more accuratly for me. What do you think?

Also, I am assuming that the HK Expert can handle the .45 Super, just like the regular USP can. Is this true?

thanks!
 
I suggest that you try the Marine Tuf-Cloth, and coat the entire slide stop with it, as well as the rest of the gun. The extreme humidity and salinity of carrying a firearm against the body in warm weather are the sort of conditions for which the Marine Tuf-Cloth are made.

Hope this helps, Walt
 
Marine Tuff Cloth... The rust thing is something I have not seen before on mine. Me and a partner once both notived rust on our HKs - on the rear sites - a touch of breakfree and a tooth brush cleaned it off fast and I have never seen it on my gun since.

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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Doc.. close your eyes for a sec... I'm about to utter the dreaded "K" word.... ;)

When I had to switch out the slide stop on my Kimber Combat Carry for a Wilson (many threads on why I had to do this) within a couple of days, I noticed some light rust on it. As George, a quick bath in BreakFree and some TLC cleaned it up quick. After the inital shock, I began to wonder. Wilson? Rust? Aren't these suppose to be the best? The Kimber part didn't rust int he month I carred it. But the Wilson did within two weeks. Hmmmm.... (Not throwing stones here. Just pointing out it can happen to anyone. So check for it regularly.)



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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
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It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper
 
Hey Bubba and Doc (Walt Welch?) just wondering what's up with the dreaded "K" word thing?

Any bad experience with 'em??? Just wondering.

Ross T.
 
Red Bull - I bought the Expert because I thought it would be my version of an "improved" Glock P/T -- .45 caliber, "Match" DAO/SA trigger with thumb safety in either mode, HE finish, German quality, .45 Super capability, rails, adj. sights, polymer advantages, extreme accuracy and reliability. After 2000 rounds, I've learned some things. First the good news -- the Expert is a lightweight, very reliable, soft shooting, tack driver. Mechanically, it is capable of shooting one hole groups to the limit of the device holding it. It gives me the confidence to know that I can hit a poker chip with a deliberate first shot at 25 yds every time if I do my part. It is soft shooting, although the double recoil spring has a somewhat disconcerting "shuffling" cycle to it. Now the bad news -- while the SA trigger is better than a Glock, the DA is not. Worse, the DA pull is very sensitive to finger placement and the reach is long. For me, if the finger is not placed perfectly in the center of the trigger, the geometry is such that the DA trigger pull becomes seemingly exponentially greater. As reported, the HE finish seems no better than bluing -- certainly no match for Tenifer. It WILL handle .45 Super. I've launched a few of Triton's fastest 165 gr. loads down range and, while they arrive in tidy little groups, you don't want to ignite those babies in an indoor range. Flash is considerable and I had one failure to completely return to battery. A nudge with my thumb fixed that. I really haven't figured out the mission for that particular load. It's too much for self-defense, and prabably too frangible for hunting anything other than varmints. I think the 230 gr. Super probably has application in the hunting field or as a lightweight trail piece for last ditch defense against large carnivores. While the Glock and H&K both have rails, the H&K UTL is more expensive, bulky, and more difficult to activate with my average length fingers than the M3 version made by the same company (Insight Technologies) for Glock. The H&K UTL does get runner up points for having a dedicated on/off switch to protect the batteries during storage/holstering/etc. I'd rather have the better ergonomics. Ah, ergonomics...the tie-breaker. I love the Expert. It shoots well for me. I like the weight, the caliber, the versatility inherent in its DESIGN. For me, it gets my vote for Miss Photogenic. Placed side by side with a Glock 34/35, it looks like the Glock's muscled up bigger brother. Then you pick them both up and the Glock gets Miss Congeniality, the bouquet and the tiara. For me, the P/T's fit my hand perfectly. The sights align on their own, the M3 light is perfectly balanced, and the pistol's extended barrels shoot very, very good groups, if not the AMAZING groups of the Expert's extended tube. The P/T's feel like extensions of my hand -- smooth, small, almost if Gaston had used my hand for the grip template. If I grab the Expert after holding the Glock, it feels like I'm holding and pointing a Conair hairdryer. The Expert is just that_much too tall, too square, and too blocky to compete with the Glock. The Glocks feel smooth, the Expert feels angular. The Glocks feel purposeful, the H&K feels, I don't know, complicated. While the SA pull is much better than the DA Glock, it pales to a good 1911. And the DA pull, to me, is no better than the Glock. Now, if H&K could duplicate the light and creamy DA pull I experienced on the new ParaOrdnace LDA...(sigh). Bottom line, if you like 9mm or .40, I think the Glock is a much more user friendly platform. If you really want a polymer .45, the Expert has much to recommend it and accuracy that will take your breath away. I liked the Expert so much I bought two. But if Glock makes a .45 P/T that doesn't sacrifice the ergonomics of its 34/35 siblings, the line to buy one (or two) forms directly behind me. Hope this helps with your decision. If you have any more questions, please feel free to e-mail me.
 
Yes, rust is a problem with the USPs. This gun is the issue handgun with my dept. Our motorcycle officers especially are very vigilant with the oil rag when getting off shift.

Personally, I coat the slide of my USP with Ballistol gun oil and let the oil soak in overnight before following up with a dry cloth the next morning. As such, I haven't had any rust on my USP in over two years.

The USP finish doesn't respond well to neglect and the Seattle climate might be too much of a "hostile environment."
 
Now I'm getting a little worried.

My USP is my first handgun (I'm sure everrrrryone knows this by now...*grin*). I've never taken care of one before, and these posts are starting to scare me.

What exactly do I need to do to protect my gun from rusting to little teeny tiny pieces?

So far, all the cleaning instructions just say that the slide should be oiled with lubricant but then wiped off with a dry rag/patch so that no oil is noticable to sight or touch.

I don't carry mine close to my body (in fact, I always leave it in the box unless I'm at the range, seeing that I don't have a CCW), but the New Jersey weather here is humid enough to encourage fungus/mold growth on the antireflective coating of camera lenses (yes, I am a camera buff) so it's quite a "hostile environment".

Do I need to wipe it down after each cleaning/use with a Tuf Cloth?

What's an oil rag? (Ok, it sounds like a rag dripping with oil, but somehow that makes me envision a slide that glistens like the neighbourhood Chinese fast-food's exhaust hood.)

And how exactly do you remove rust provided you find it? (It seems like most people are finding it on the back of the slide release.)

Thanks!

-Jon
 
Hologon, relax ! Your HK won't rust into little pieces- it just requires slightly more care than a stainless finished gun.

You should clean your gun after each shooting session and then give all metal surfaces a coating of oil (I prefer Ballistol spray). You can then immediately wipe these same surfaces down with a dry cloth and your HK should be thoroughly protected against rust. Alternatively, if you store the gun in its case for extended periods of time, I would leave the oil on the metal surfaces and then wipe it dry immediately before using/carrying it.

In the event that you do find rust, gentle rubbing with an oiled patch should remove it easily (depending on the severity of rust).

Again, I have carried my USP/c concealed almost every day for the past two years and have yet to see any signs of rust.
 
I've got a USP .40, and I've never had a serious problem with rust, the only time rust has even appeared on my sidearm has been when I've failed to hold up my end of the bargain and not properly maintained it. Like sweating like a hog while carrying for a week straight in one of those cheapy fabric holsters without a sweat guard and not cleaning the firearm during that time.

I use CLP and Hoppes on my USP and never had a serious problem at all. I typically will let the CLP soak into the firearm though, by first disassembling and cleaning, then liberally coating the cleaned pieces, wiping dry with a clean rag, and finally reassembling. Never a major problem as long as I do my part and actually bother to maintain it properly. Of course, when I do fully clean and strip it, I do go in with the dental tools and get obsessive, but the normal wipedown is all it usually needs.

I was thinking about sending it to Birdsong, but to tell you the truth, I like the finish as is, and the more it wears, the more charecter it has IMHO.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com

[This message has been edited by Spark (edited September 25, 1999).]
 
Thanks so much, Huge, for the review.
I really want the G21, but if the Expert is really that accurate and precise, I must go with it.
 
Like ANY metal parts - they need a coating of some oil or silicon. No matter who machined the part...
Is anyone seeing any rust throught the HE Finish? That would be very bad... I think though that the rust that is shoing up is on parts that either is not coated, or where the finish has been worn off. It's not that its prone to rusting - it's that it has been left unprotected. I have seen both SIGs and Glocks get spots of rust. (And every other type of gun too)
Quality is not a replacement of proper care.

Oh, when you wiped it down every night - did you also wipe the back of the slide stop too?
Have you ever wiped off that spot with said cloth? Was it an old cloth - maybe losing its agents?
Just wondering - Cause the devil is in the Details...

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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac




[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited September 28, 1999).]
 
Red Bull - You're very welcome. I had an older G21 that shot well but didn't fit my hand. The Expert is better at both. Whether it is worth the price of a two or more G21's becomes a personal decision that involves more than a comparison of features.
George - the rust I experienced did not penetrate the finish and was less than a day or two old. The rust observed one the back of another shooter's slide stop was definitely into the metal. The purpose of my ALERT was to warn readers who (1) carry their USP's where perspiration may cover the weapon and (2) do not field strip the pistol every day to take extra care to keep ALL surfaces of the slide stop protected with Tuff Cloth or similar coating/oil/preservative. Personally, I don't field strip my carry gun every evening. I do so after each range session, which is usually once a week. In that brief time, given Texas weather conditions in August, I experienced rust. I have met shooters who carry daily and shoot less frequently than many of us on the forum. For those who carry in humid environments and rely on the HE finish to ward off rust, a word to the wise should be sufficient. I should point out that I have carried Glocks in environments that left them bathed in perspiration and salty spray. My experience with the Tenifer finish has convinced me that it is a vastly superior finish for harsh environment conditions. I've had my share of problems with Glocks, but rusting has never been one of them. God bless, Hugh
 
I have a SS USP .45, and haven't had any problems with rust. Anyway, I was looking at my gun it looked as though the slide stop was just blued and didn't have the "HE" finish. However, I do not have a USP with the HE finish to compare to so I can't say for sure.
 
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