Air rifle accuracy & power questions

F

Futo Inu

New member
Probably dumb questions, so please BWM. I saw in Shotgun news an RWS model 48 in .177 for $295, which seems pretty good, so I am considering a purchase. However, someone posted here once something to the effect that "accuracy goes to hell once vels get over 1000 fps". I'd like to have the .177 over the .22 for the flatter trajectory, but the model 48 is advertised for vels of 1,100 fps, so 3 questions:

1. Anyone have experience with accuracy falling off at "high" vels, esp. experience with accuracy of the model 48 RWS?

2. Do .177 pellets actually come in a variety of weights, such that one can reduce the velocity with a heavier pellet, if the accuracy problem proves true? Or are the differences in weight basically negligible?

3. I understand that the fixed barrel RWS rifles are pretty darn accurate in general, but their barrel length is so short (only 17.5" I think), that I'm wondering if there's not a better .177 rifle for the money with a longer barrel giving it an edge in accuracy? Amazingly, the 1,100 fps is THE highest advertised velocity I've seen, so apparently no one seems to be able to generate more power with a spring piston than RWS, even with a longer barrel, not even the high dollar Beemans (though the ad vels are inflated, they still bear a rough correlation to the actuals).
 
I have the RWS Model 54 (recoilless version of the 48) and a Feinwerkbau 300. Each gun has its own purpose. The RWS is for plinking and vermin. The FWB is for punching paper. The FWB is much more accurate than the RWS, but it also cost well over $1000. With a scope, the RWS can maintain headshots on mice for quick kills at airgun ranges. The RWS would also be good for airgun silhouette. The FWB is rated slightly under 700fps and the RWS is at 1100fps. Is it a function of velocity? Good question. I think it is more a function of workmanship than anything.

.177 pellets do come in a variety of weights and types so you can shoot a heavier pellet in the RWS for greater knockdown power. RWS has a wide variety and Beeman imports a variety of manufacturers pellets, too.

A longer barrel would be detrimental to accuracy due to the extra time in the barrel and the tendency for the shooter to move. The barrel length on the RWS is fine and stabilizes the pellet quite nicely.

Check out Airgun Express at 800 896-4867. They list their website as http://www.airgunexpress.com
They are full stocking dealers for RWS and all of Beeman's products. Get one of their catalogs. They will save you a lot off of Beemans direct prices.
 
For hunting and vermin control, I strongly recommend a .20 or .22. A .177 at 1000 fps just zips right through larger vermin such as pidgeons, rats, and game like rabbit, squirrels, and grouse regardless of pellet choice... Now if your sniping mice, the .177 is the way to go.

Put a little velocity behind a .22 pellet and you'll plainly hear the "hollow whack" when making contact with game. 750 fps behind an Eley Wasp .22 pellet is potent medicine. You probably won't be shooting far enough to worry much about trajectory, and the accuracy of the high end airguns is astounding today...

To answer your questions, pellets come in a variety of shapes and weights, each supposed to have it's own application (really, it's to sell more pellets). I've had the best luck with dome heads- .20 Kodiak, .20 Ramjet, .20 Redbox Sheridan, .22 Eley Wasp, and .22 Kodiak.

Short barrel won't effect accuracy and might improve velocity.

And last, the companies know velocity sells airguns. They publish the highest test velocity with the lightest pellet probably from a tuned gun. If you like it buy it. If you can get .22 consider that caliber.
 
I think the RWS 48 is the same rifle as the Diana 48, which I have. Accuracy was O.K. with open sights. The sights that came with it were not that good so I could not tell how accurate it really was. It tended to damage scopes.

I found the recoil violent (not felt recoil). So things had to be done consistently to get good accuracy results. The recoil is probably why more velocity is considered bad for accuracy.

I used heavier pellets to reduce the velocity. I used Crossman match pellets in 10.9 gr. They make a lighter load in 7.9 gr. I can't remember the exact numbers.

Will
 
Will,
Yes the RWS is actually made by Diana. You raise a valid issue on the recoil of the 48, which is why I bought the recoiless Model 54. With any air rifle you must use an air rifle scope. The recoil is different from a regular firearm due to the reverse forces of the air rifle's mechanism. An air rifle scope has additional bracing on the lens elements to protect the scope against the reverse recoil forces.
 
slickpuppy ... head shots on mice? If you're not kidding, then I'm amazed. I thought I was doing well with my Benjamin Sheridan getting consistent head shots on rabbits. ;) Of course, there's much less risk on a charge from a killer mouse versus a killer rabbit, right? ;)

All kidding aside, I've always heard that a .22 or .25 caliber is better for pests. I recall some guy on TFL arguing that the .25 calibers were inherently more accurate for some reason. .22 gets it done for our simple needs.
 
Jeff,
I have a 6.5x 24 B&L air rifle scope with adjustable objective mounted on the RWS and it makes all the difference in the world. From a solid rest it won't miss. The Sheridan is a decent little air gun but no comparison in accuracy(or price) to the Euro airgun manufacturers such as RWS/Diana or FWB.
The test target from the factory for the FWB was a one hole group. Airgun Express mounted the airgun scope on the RWS and the test target from them with 5 shots was 1/4". This is typical accuracy that can be achieved with a high quality airgun at airgun ranges.

Also, spring air guns are more consistent velocity wise on a shot to shot basis vs. a pump pneumatic air gun.

I'm not slamming your Sheridan at all. It is like comparing an apple to an orange. When I was a wee pup I had one myself and used to lure in rats and starlings with popcorn and blast them from my bedroom window. You know the old saying: "The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys".

As for caliber, .177 takes all of the gold medals. If I was trying to down rabbits though I would want a .20, .22, or .25 caliber.

[This message has been edited by slickpuppy (edited November 19, 1999).]
 
slickpuppy, no offense taken at all. I wanted a 'Chevy', and that's what I bought. Rabbits were my problem, the Benjamin - Sheridan was a cheap and effective solution, and it affords me a little more interesting practice.

My amazement at your comment re: head shots on mice was mainly due to my observations of mice. I can readily believe a fine air rifle is capable of such performance, albeit with a darn steady aim. But, everytime I've seen mice in our cabin, they are moving at just below light speed. ;) What do you do - leave out cheese that's been laced with vodka? I mean, how do you get them to stay still enough to take such a shot. [Yeah, I know - now I'm gonna hear about head shots on mice while they're on a dead run ... ;) ]

At least we have enough sense to avoid discussing this in the Hunting forum, eh? ;) I certainly hope we don't have another participant soon who regales us with head shots on sparrows in flight ...
 
Bait. No, I can't hit them on the run. Bait works wonders along with a good rest. The problems are in the barn so I just take some shelled field corn out of the storage drums and use that. They stay put long enough to nail.

[This message has been edited by slickpuppy (edited November 20, 1999).]
 
Futo Inu, Not dumb questions at all. First, a projectile approaching the speed of sound becomes less stable, hence less accurate. It doesn't smooth out again 'til it's several hundres fps above the sos. You'll notice that all premium .22 target ammo is subsonic.

Pellets come in a great variety of weights, and when you're shooting such micro-projectiles, a few grains in weight can make a noticeable difference in muzzle velocity and trajectory. You're right, manufacturers take great liberties with published muzzle velocities. Beeman seems to be a little less manic in this regard than some. Published mv's are ok for general comparisons, as you suggest, but don't sweat over a hundred fps one way or the other. Anything less is truly negligible for most shooting.

Whatever caliber you choose, shot placement wins out over fps. Lots of fudge room, however, depending on you application. Are you hunting; what size game? Field target competition? Informal plinking, paper punching? What distances? Those answers should determine caliber, mv, energy, pellet weights, etc.

If you are really into airguns, check out delphi.com/maccari, under discussion groups. Jim Maccari is to spring guns what the best rifle and pistol smiths are to their crafts. He tuned my Beeman R1; unbelievable. Smooth, no sproinging recoil, dampened sound, increased mv. He can tune for max mv, max quiet/mild recoil, etc. He also sells new guns at reasonable prices, and some very nice used ones for bargains. Jim is very knowledgable and a really nice guy too. He is extremely helpful. Check the site out first, though. Most questions you have are probably answered there. Very helpful bunch.

This may be heretical, but if you're not really into airguns you might consider CB caps in a .22 Long Rifle. 29 grain bullet, 700-750 fps, quieter than almost all magnum airguns of any type. Fast and easy to reload. Ironically, CCI CB caps at Wal-Mart et al are cheaper than some premium pellets.

Oh, if you do go the airgun route check out Crosman Premiere pellets. They're accurate in many guns of all calibers. Like .22s, each gun tends to be quirky about what it likes best.

If you want to get into this in some depth, e-mail me at rossbzn@aol.com. Good luck.
 
Can't find the web page you are talking about.

Is it to much trouble to post a link?

------------------
The new guy.

"I'm totin, this pistol because my dang SKS won't fit in my holster"
 
Thanks, DeadCalm. Very good info. I'll have to check that website. Your Beeman sounds awesome. Yes, I've always like airguns, but are not "into them" as much as you and others. My primary purpose here is shooting birds and other "varmints" around the house. Very good idea in using CB .22 caps rather than an airgun, for my purposes, esp in light of fact that it's LESS sound report. Funny, in .22lr, BOTH gun and ammo are cheaper to obtain similar accuracy/results (except that the .22 has much more punch). Perhaps I'll go this route as I already own a Ruger 10/22. I have an RWS model 34 in .177, and had a model 45 at one point, which is basically the same thing, and get very good accuracy (nailed a crow at 40-45 yards about 6 months ago! - went down with one shot), but I want the slight edge in accuracy and power that a fixed-barrel side-cocker such as the 48 would provide. You know, you've really introduced a dilemma to me now, because of two factors: On the one hand, the 29 gr .22s will solve the biggest problem I have - the extreme windiness year-round here - no airgun will cure this problem, but a 29 grainer vs. a 6 grainer will. On the other hand, if I practice indoors, I'll be breathing much more lead from a .22 cb than from airgun pellets. The cb caps I've seen for sale are lead, not jacketed, plus the lead syphnate in the rim priming, correct? I'm thinking an airgun is much safer in this respect. One other factor: I don't think the cops will take kindly to me shooting .22s in city limits if caught, cb caps or not, whereas I'd probably get off with just a warning for an airgun (though it too is technically illegal to shoot in city limits).

Also, what is your take on .177 vs. .22 for my purposes, or for any airgun purposes in general? This may sound weird, but I wanted the faster pellet from a .177, which approaches the speed of sound in these rifles (1,000 fps, give or take, vs. SOS 1,100 fps), rather than a .22 pellet going 700-800, for the simple reason I don't want to give these birds the split-second advantage they will have from hearing the report before the pellet reaches them. Seems to me that an animal as fast as most birds are could get 1-2" of movement between the time the hear the report and begin to move before they're hit, esp. at distances over 20-25 yards, where the pellet velocity decreases very quickly, and this can be the difference between a hit and miss. Any merit to this idea?

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited November 30, 1999).]
 
Futo et al, this conversation got me interested in the subject, and I picked up a Beeman's catalog at an FFL the other day. Get a Beeman's catalog, if you're interested in airguns! Boy, this thing is chock full of info, not to mention their entire line.

You know, people have been making air guns since the 16th century! And, they used to use them for 'big' game like deer. The Austrian army even had repeating air rifles!

I'm also amazed at how heavy and expensive some of these air rifles are. This is a very interesting field, and much different than I expected.

BTW, the Beeman's site is at http://www.beeman.com/ .

Regards from AZ
 
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