After a HD or CCW shooting....

H

HKguy9

New member
After you shoot somebody in a home defense or a CCW (you are legally carrying) scenario, whether or not the person ends up dead, I'm curious about this. Let's say the shooting is justified.

I'm sure any shooting is investigated...are ALL your guns taken by the authorities, or just the one invovled in the shooting? I am trying to debate whether I should get a nice 1911 for carry (assuming I go ahead with my CCW) or just get a cheapo but well-made Glock 19. It would suck to lose a $2000 gun, but losing a $500 won't make me feel AS bad. Or would they ALL be taken and making the point moot and I might as well carry a $1,000,000 gold plated gun that was autographed by Moses, as I will lose them all?
 
This probably depends on what jurisdiction you're in. Locally, here in Central Florida, new reports seem to indicate that if the police deem it a justified shoot, and there's no doubt about whose bullets hit who, they don't even take your gun for ballistic testing. They'll take it and unload it when they arrive, because they have to control the crime scene, but they hand it back when they go. I've never heard of them taking all the guns in the house.

Police here have the option of deciding that a shooting situation is within the terms of teh Jack Hagler Self-Defense Act, and they do not have to refer it to the Grand Jury. It helps that our County Sheriff (the Hon. Ben Johnson, a good guy with whom I've talked at length) is a sport shooter and CCW permit holder himself.

Of course, NYC or Kalifornia might take your guns, kitchen knives, prescription drugs, your kids' baseball bats and hockey sticks, and book you for discharging a firearm in the city limits when you shot the drug-crazed bastard that was ripping off your daughter's nightgown.
 
You should carry what works best for you. Then get four (4) of that weapon. If you shoot the 2.2K Les Baer really well, get it. If you shoot the $450 Glock really well, get it. Get multiple copies and a truckload of magazines.

Now, to answer your question, it depends. Since you are starting out with the dangerous assumption that your shooting will be justified, I will play along.

You must be careful when assuming that as it depends on what happens before the shooting is deemed justified. It may be at the scene. It may be a day later. It may be when the Prosecuting Attorney declines to file charges.

Understand that the "law of self-defense of state X" that GSCs quote to you in the gun shop is an affirmative defense. That means that you can use it if they come after you. But it is best not to have to use it.

If magically deemed "justified" at the scene, the police may not take your weapon as evidence as there is no need. You may lose your weapon in the civil suit or protective order which may follow.

If the police investigate as they should (understand that the police are not there to protect you but to collect evidence for the prosecutor), they will take your weapon as evidence. Further, they may go to a judge to search your house.

If the prosecutor decides not to prosecute, your weapon may or may not be returned. The prosecutor may decide not to prosecute but not return your property and you will have to sue to have it returned. However, the prosecutor may decide to prosecute you (it's his call) and you will be held in jail with no bond (depending on charge and state) and you will see your weapon is at the Opening Statement of your trial when the prosecutor is holding it up for the jury to recoil in terror or at your sentencing hearing.

The civil suit will be bad enough. This is why it is vital to pay attention to who your prosecutor is. I didn't even hit on the potential federal crimes that a self-defense shooting may raise.

Problem #2 is always there. Lots of people get quite upset when cold water is poured on their sacred cows. One of the largest cows is that of the Warrior Prince who will always be victorious and always be lauded, instead of prosecuted.

When you train for Problem #1, you should think "I'm losing, now what do I do." Same for Problem #2.

Avoidance is always correct as you do not have to face either problem.
 
query:

why four? Just to be quadruple-redundant? I can see two...I'm just curious why the magic number of 4...

Mike
 
You will lose whatever gun you shoot the perp with, at least for a while, for ballistics testing.

I can't believe this topic. Why are you worried about losing a physical item for a period of time? If you used a gun, any gun of any cost, to save your life or prevented you from serious injury, then the gun has paid for itself. Don't give it a second thought.

You should not own any defensive gun that you can't afford to lose, either financially or mentally.

On top of all that, why would you use a handgun in a home defense situation? A nice $200 pump 12 ga. would do the trick nicely and be very cheap.
 
It really depends on the case and the jusidiction.
However, should plan on the fact that in the case of any shooting the police will require the weapon as evidence. Futhermore, it will probably be mishandled, tagged and thrown on the shelf of an evidence room for the duration of the investigation and trial if any. In some states it may actually take legal action to recover the weapon.
Case in point.
I have a close friend and shooting buddy that lives in the state of Virginia. He used his Sig 226 to shoot at a person that was trying his best to run him down with an automobile in a parking lot. (Motive involved the attentions of a disputed female)
The club manager called the county deputies and reported my friend for discharging a firearm in the parking lot. The freak that was trying to run him down also called the law and reported he had been fired at. My friend and the girl in question reported the assualt by motor vehicle and the fact he shot back, but were the last to call in.
The upshot was that the county deputies arrested both men on assualt with a deadly weapon charges and then released both of them on bond. My friend had his P226 siezed and kept for 8 months while the slow wheels of Virginia justice ground away. He was not convicted partially due to the witness of the girl in question. When he got the weapon back it had thick film of rust down one side of the slide and on the magazine like it had been stored in a puddle of salt water. The alloy frame also had mutiple stratches and nicks. He had the entire gun refinished but you can still see rust pits on that side of the slide. That was over 5 years ago and the sheriff's department has refused to reinburse him for the damage to his firearm. Plus he would have been unarmed for 8 months with a nut looking for him if he had not had another weapon at home.
 
And in heavily anti jurisdictions you should not be surprised to see what looks like willful damage to your piece, IF you get it back.

So count that part of the cost of defending your life, because that's why you fired, isn't it?
 
Mike, 4 is the ideal number as one to carry, one in reserve, one at the gunsmith, one hidden off your property. More is always better.

Erick, don't think they'll get a warrant to search your house? Maybe not if it looks like a legit act; however......... Plan on them executing the warrant. As well, as a condition of bond (assuming you'll get any) will be that you do not possess firearms or ammo. The protective order will impose this condition as well.

What Erick sez is correct. How these investigations are handled differ--state to state, county to county, etc. Find someone who knows the waters, not what someone says at the gun shop ("If anybody screws with me, I'll shoot `em and get a community service award).
 
One thing to add: KSfreeman warns of civil suit, but again you should check your jurisdiction. Here in Florida, a person may not sue for injury of damage they suffered while committing a crime.
 
KSFreeman, since the police will rarely be able (or willing) to say the shoot was without question a case of lawful self defense what can people expect to face during the aftermath of a shooting.

I have accepted the fact that I will almost certainly be arrested and spend a day or more in jail, the weapon used will be lost for the duration of the investigation (or longer), I will lose my permit for a while at least and I will incur some legal bills (a few thousand or more). What else can be expected? While I know of several cases in wich the responding police did not arrest the shooter or even take the gun used, I know these to be the exception rather than the rule. I expect most to go to the grand jury at the least.

In the classes we teach we have one of three lawyers teach the laws dealing with self defense but the legal aftermath of a shooting is something the lawyers don't want to talk about because of the time involved. When we asked about it they all said that would take far longer to cover than the laws governing self defense because it is so subjective.
 
You are dealing with minor concerns

Use the gun that is best for you defensively.

What you lose to confiscation will be a minor issue. The civil suit and criminal suit will be substantial enough that the legal bills could buy you just about any defensive handgun you want.

Use the best handgun for your situation because protecting your life is worth it. If you toss in considerations of what might get conficated, you are concerned about the wrong thing.
 
Sounds like as a minimum you need to have another gun available
for self-defense in case the police confiscate the one you used to defend yourself. This may be doubly important if the bad guy you
shot has friends/family who may be out for revenge.

Further Question : If your back-up weapon is a black-powder revolver, would that not be more apt to be exempt from seizure
if indeed, the authorities consficate every gun you have?
 
If your back-up weapon is a black-powder revolver, would that not be more apt to be exempt from seizure
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A gun is a gun. Just because the ATF does not consider a muzzleloader--"does not fired 'fixed' ammunition"--to be a firearm does NOT mean that your local law agrees. Case in point: Cabela's is arguably the largest mail-order source of muzzleloaders, but cannot ship a Pennsylvania Long Rifle to residents of Nebraska where it is located--and some states even consider a bow and arrow or even a slingshot to be a "firearm" for "weapons definition" purposes.
Summary: Study and know the local law before you try to find loopholes.
 
Jake, yep, they're right. May be in your best interests to consult with an attorney licensed in your state. Remember, lawyers, like doctors (or auto mechanics) specialize. The guy that did your will or settled your wife's car crash claim may not be the right guy for a question like this. I suggest a slick-hair, tile-crawling snake in a good suit and scuffed shoes (probably a crim def guy).

The one point I will warn you of and which you see a lot on TFL is that people will hold forth that the "law of the State of X" prevents this or that or says I can shoot anyone with my eyes closed, etc., et al. There are exceptions and exemptions. Further, the "law of the State of X" as to self-defense are affirmative defenses. This means someone (i.e. a prosecutor) has to come at you. Better to avoid, brasshopper.
 
Why are some of y'all worried that the cops will confiscate every gun you own? That strikes me as very odd. I have never heard of that happening.

There was a thread similar to this a couple of years ago. The thread was basically along the lines of you having just defended your life with your 'baby' that cost zillions of dollars being customized by nothing but the best smiths in the world and you had used that very gun at Thunder Ranch, Gunsight, Front Sight, etc.. The perp is dead and the cops roll up and see you with a gun in your hand and immediately each cops draws his weapon on you and you are ordered to "drop your gun." The question was, do you subject your precious gun to that sort of mistreatment, or do you try to reason with the cops about how your gun should be treated?

That thread, like this thread, like so many other threads are a form of fixation on the wrong problem. Other examples would be that a light trigger pull, handloaded ammo, a gun with an aggressive sounding name (Wilson Combat, for example) will all somehow make you more susceptible to either legal or civil prosecution. If you wrongly shoot somebody, you may have troubles, but they will go way beyond that light trigger or evil sounding gun name.

If the gun you shoot best is called the Terminator 2002 Black Ops Combat Master with the special bonus Lethality Package that comes complete with the solid 3 oz trigger, accessory cup holder, and you are shooting your personally designed and named Blood Extractor ammo that you have hand loaded hot, then that is the gun you should hope you have with you when the time comes and you have to use a gun to save your life.

The important points you need to know for after the gun fight is to keep your mouth shut except for stating that you need a lawyer. At that moment, your value system will be changing dramatically. The status of your gun will be completely in the background as the status of your butt in jail is seen as fresh meat by your new companions.

Getting to that point, since so many people are worried about what is going to happen to their guns after a gun battle, how many of you already have a lawyer lined up? How many of you have take the time to meet with your lawyer to discuss the potential legal rammifications of you being in a gun battle? How many of you have that lawyer's card in your pocket and the number of a good bail bondsman? Aside from worrying about developing your skills to win a gun fight, the next concern is not what happens to you gun, but what happens to YOU while going through the legal process.

When was the last time anyone who came out victorious in a gun fight was heard to say that they wished they had used a Raven .25 instead of their ________ (insert good brand name here)? More likely, they will be very happy that they chose a quality firearm and used quality ammo to accomplish what the task needed.

Don't fixate on the wrong issues. If you want to fixate on aspects of a gun fight, fixate on becoming better prepared, better trained, more practiced, and owning a reliable gun with ammo that you know will perform well in that gun. You have to be alive to worry about your gun after a gun fight. Hell, if you are dead, it doesn't matter what gun you used, now does it?
 
00 Spy, the concern over all your guns may have been started by me. It comes from the shooting cases I have worked in private and as a LEO. It's just a possibility does not mean it will happen; you can lose them in civil court as well.

However, brasshopper, you forget the number priority in your prep--avoidance. Now answer me this: what is the sound of one .45 firing? Answer this and you may leave the temple (after you snatch the .45 acp cartridge from my hand).
 
Why are some of y'all worried that the cops will confiscate every gun you own? That strikes me as very odd. I have never heard of that happening.
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Sure, but you live in Texas. :) And I'm sure you'll avoid moving to, say, DC, CA, or Chicago...
As someone pointed out, jurisdictions differ...
Also, times change. Remember the advice to "Shoot him on the porch and drag him inside"? Any C- forensic technician will spot that one in his or her sleep, so DON'T SO IT!
 
KSFreeman, I have already consulted with our attorneys (one of our instructors who specializes in criminal law) so I have a reasonable understanding of Virginia law, what I was hoping for was some general guidelines for the other readers. I don't want to discuss what I have been told because it may be specific to my area.
 
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