I'm just looking for advice from those who are more knowledgeable thn me (isn't too hard) regarding an old Model 94 I'm thinking of buying. I'm not a collector, but I enjoy older rifles and handguns and have a thing for old Winchesters. I've been on the lookout for an old pre-64 Model 94 chambered in 30 WCF (.30-30) for a while now..something really clean! I shoot and enjoy all my guns so this would be shot on my range as well as hunted with. Anyway, I found a Model 94 chambered in .32 Winchester special that is tempting me. If it were a .30-30 I may have already jumped on it, but these are my concerns. It's a .32 special. I'm a handloader and know I could pickup dies (and would) but brass and bullets are tough to come by. It appears you're stuck with Hornandy and Win brass, and Hornandy and Speer bullets. Kind of limited but that's more of a downer than a concern. The rifle is a carbine, looks fairly clean for it's age, around 1920. It's got a metal strap butt plate like the carbines did, but the barrel may have been re-blued. The stock and forearm are in nice shape and have some nice walnut figure to them but they appear to be refinished..they have a little more shine than I'd expect the original oil matte would be. I know his detracts from value as a collector, but I'll be shooting and enjoying it. The big flag is, the rear site looks like a normal rear pistol sight instead of the typical spring steel and ramp most lever guns have. Did Winchester ever offer this or did someone replace the rear site? I'm tempted to snatch it up, but dont want to regret holding out for what I originally started looking for. Any advice I can get is welcome.
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Advice on an old Winchester model 94
- Thread starter MJFlores
- Start date
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I only know from reading, but the brass seems to be scarce. Don't quote me, but maybe .30-30 brass works with the .32 expander.
As long as its not offered at a collector price, the possibly-reblued barrel is fine if your primary interest is as a using-gun.
Dunno 'bout the rear sight. Might be a replacement.
As long as its not offered at a collector price, the possibly-reblued barrel is fine if your primary interest is as a using-gun.
Dunno 'bout the rear sight. Might be a replacement.
cases are a breeze, just run 30-30 cases in the 32 special resize die. bullets are out there and should be 321 dia., when you find them buy several hundred. i reload for a old win 1894 rifle in 32-40 and reform 30-30 cases for it and use the same bullet (.321 dia), no problems at all.eastbank.
stubbicatt
New member
An option for the 32 Win Special is cast bullets. I cast for a 30-30 and a 32-40, and never run out of highly accurate, easy to clean up after, projectiles.
Some say the Special was designed for cast bullets and black powder. I have never researched the truthfulness of that statement, but I hear it frequently.
Some say the Special was designed for cast bullets and black powder. I have never researched the truthfulness of that statement, but I hear it frequently.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Sounds like whom ever own the rifle prior went and changed the rifles earlier appearance.
My advice:
Pay special attention to the rifles bore condition. Needs to be bright and having a well defined rifling breech to muzzle. If it doesn't appear to be that way. Get a big /steep discount. Like 200.00 Max. price. (Dark bores are caused by the previous owners use of Black Powder or their being poorly cared for.) Then buy it. Call Jes barrels. Have its barrel re-bored to 38-55. For a couple hundred dollars Jes will make such a abused dark bore shoot as good or better than new.
Rear sight. No big deal. Lots of fellows didn't like that original rear sight. Check the front sight. See if its been replace also. As sights sometimes are replaced in pairs.
Fact:
Specials like a hefty powder charge to shoot well.
Offer about the same accuracy as a 30-30.
32 exceeds the 30-30 for the taking of deer. Not due to its stats. Due to its being Two calibers larger in mass size makes a difference (I think)
The rifle will shoot G/checked cast as accurate as jacketed.
Original brass is a problem. But having one box full of factory rounds is all you need for display to others.
For range & hunting brass? No doubt reloads are good for those purposes.
Cast Bullets aren't a problem. Neither are jacketed if your a home reloader. A little time spent looking online will resolve those issues.
Good luck with the ownership or perhaps not.
My advice:
Pay special attention to the rifles bore condition. Needs to be bright and having a well defined rifling breech to muzzle. If it doesn't appear to be that way. Get a big /steep discount. Like 200.00 Max. price. (Dark bores are caused by the previous owners use of Black Powder or their being poorly cared for.) Then buy it. Call Jes barrels. Have its barrel re-bored to 38-55. For a couple hundred dollars Jes will make such a abused dark bore shoot as good or better than new.
Rear sight. No big deal. Lots of fellows didn't like that original rear sight. Check the front sight. See if its been replace also. As sights sometimes are replaced in pairs.
Fact:
Specials like a hefty powder charge to shoot well.
Offer about the same accuracy as a 30-30.
32 exceeds the 30-30 for the taking of deer. Not due to its stats. Due to its being Two calibers larger in mass size makes a difference (I think)
The rifle will shoot G/checked cast as accurate as jacketed.
Original brass is a problem. But having one box full of factory rounds is all you need for display to others.
For range & hunting brass? No doubt reloads are good for those purposes.
Cast Bullets aren't a problem. Neither are jacketed if your a home reloader. A little time spent looking online will resolve those issues.
Good luck with the ownership or perhaps not.
When Winchester introduced the 30-30 it was the 1st USA produced smokeless powder cartridge. The 7X57 was introduced 3 years earlier and the 30-30 was really a step backwards in cartridge development. It was new technology that Winchester wasn't certain would work. The 32 Special was an almost identical round meant to be used with black powder. In case smokeless powder was not accepted by shooters they had a readily available alternative.
Of course smokeless powder took off and instead of dropping the 32 they kept it and converted it to smokeless powder. Performance on game is identical, but some hunters are convinced .013" of bullet diameter actually makes a difference and the 32 sold just enough to hang on for a long time.
As a shooter I'd rather have a 30-30 since ammo is so much easier to find and at very good prices. But I'd like to have a 32 just to have one. They are certainly much less common. I'd be very tempted if the price is right and reflects the condition. A 30-30 would be a lot easier to find later if you want one.
Of course smokeless powder took off and instead of dropping the 32 they kept it and converted it to smokeless powder. Performance on game is identical, but some hunters are convinced .013" of bullet diameter actually makes a difference and the 32 sold just enough to hang on for a long time.
As a shooter I'd rather have a 30-30 since ammo is so much easier to find and at very good prices. But I'd like to have a 32 just to have one. They are certainly much less common. I'd be very tempted if the price is right and reflects the condition. A 30-30 would be a lot easier to find later if you want one.
Interesting. Here's a question, what are the chances that a 32 Win Special made in the late teens to early 20's saw any black powder? Could you buy factory ammo during that time frame that was loaded with black powder? I know a reloader could have done who knows what with it, but how likely would it have had black powder shot in it?
a lot of the primers were corrisive at that time and oil does not clean it, it takes a water based solvent to flush it out, like black powder. i have had milsurp rifles that had bores that looked like a sewer pipe, but over time cleaning with a good solvent and firing and cleaning again and again they improved quite a bit. eastbank.
"...appears you're stuck with..." Surprisingly not. Midway list Remington and Federal loaded ammo as well as Winchester and Hornady. Winchester's on sale too.
Brass options aren't so healthy. No Winchester brass. Just Hornady at Midway or Graf's. Winchester seems to be slowly reducing the stuff they make.
You are kind of limited with jacketed bullets.
As mentioned, it's just a necked up .30-30.
"...saw any black powder?..." Zero.
"...it takes a water based solvent..." It takes plain hot tap water, period.
Brass options aren't so healthy. No Winchester brass. Just Hornady at Midway or Graf's. Winchester seems to be slowly reducing the stuff they make.
You are kind of limited with jacketed bullets.
As mentioned, it's just a necked up .30-30.
"...saw any black powder?..." Zero.
"...it takes a water based solvent..." It takes plain hot tap water, period.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Usually you can't tell when the rifle has been well care for by its previous owner/s.I know a reloader could have done who knows what with it, but how likely would it have had black powder shot in it?
I don't think so.Could you buy factory ammo during that time frame that was loaded with black powder?
As the 30-30 & 25-35 in there market place appearance in 1894 & 1895 both cartridges were factory loaded with a smokeless propellant from there get go.
I would think a 1901 cartridge (32 Special) would follow suit with a factory smokeless propellant in its beginnings too.
But Winchesters 32 specials advertisement telling of its ability to use Black as a substitute powder in its reloading no doubt appealed to those hand re-loaders back then.
The .32 Special was introduced well into the smokeless powder era at Winchester and AFAIK, was never factory loaded with black powder. Some owners of rifles in that caliber did reload with black powder, but so did owners of rifles in other "modern" calibers, like .30-40, if that was what was available.
But the statement that "dark bores are caused by the previous owners use of Black Powder or their being poorly cared for" is not entirely true. Black powder itself will not damage rifle bores; such damage is usually due to the use of corrosive primers and failure to clean the bore afterward. The .32 Special, like the .30-30, was used in the time of corrosive primers, so checking the bore is a good idea. (Non-corrosive primers did not come into common use until the late 1930's, just before WWII. Many of the early compounds were unstable, which is why the Army determined to continue use of corrosive primers through that war.)
The .32 Special has a reputation for inaccuracy; my limited experience does not support that idea. Perhaps it arose for the same reason as in the case of one owner who brought me his rifle because it wouldn't shoot. It turned out that he was firing .30-30 ammunition in it.
Jim
But the statement that "dark bores are caused by the previous owners use of Black Powder or their being poorly cared for" is not entirely true. Black powder itself will not damage rifle bores; such damage is usually due to the use of corrosive primers and failure to clean the bore afterward. The .32 Special, like the .30-30, was used in the time of corrosive primers, so checking the bore is a good idea. (Non-corrosive primers did not come into common use until the late 1930's, just before WWII. Many of the early compounds were unstable, which is why the Army determined to continue use of corrosive primers through that war.)
The .32 Special has a reputation for inaccuracy; my limited experience does not support that idea. Perhaps it arose for the same reason as in the case of one owner who brought me his rifle because it wouldn't shoot. It turned out that he was firing .30-30 ammunition in it.
Jim