ADVICE NEEDED in gun purchase for newbie

S

Scamp

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Hi: I'm new to guns and new to this forum. I live in a remote part of New Mexico's wild west and want a gun for defense primarily. Never had one nor grew up around them.
Now that I've worked through the stigma attached to them and the folks who own them, I've been researching in gun shops and talking to neighbors who own all sorts. I'm thinking the way to go is a revolver so that's the area of the forum I spend the most time in.
I'm concerned about recoil/kick and size because I'd like to carry it comfortably on my land. I also have really small hands(woman) and not as much upper body strength as most men. Also, my arms don't extend that long so I wasn't comfortable with shotguns.
To date I've been impressed with the S & W .357 Magnum,the 4 in model 67 or 64 and a comparable Ruger. I was told 4 in. has less kick than 2. I was also told that there's more to deal with (safety issues) with a pistol. I only shot once with a pistol and noticed the magazine jammed from time to time and one had to empty it. It was kind of a hassle. Anyway, I want to hear from all of you before I buy anything. I'd also like to shoot more and have neighbors who said they'd help me out. My price range is ideally under $500, but I'll spend more for the right gun.
Thank you all for helping me with this. All of your recommendations will be appreciated.
 
You can not go wrong with a good revolver.

They are simple, accurate and reliable.

They will not shoot unless you pull the trigger.

They will shoot when you pull the trigger.

They will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger, and put them where you aim them.

They can be loaded with very good defensive rounds.

Find a gun you can handle with comfort and shoot with accuracy.
 
A S&W or Ruger (or Colt, but they are not common these days) .357 Magnum revolver with 3 or 4 inch barrel is a fine reliable weapon. It has the advantage that you can shoot .38 Special target wadcutters or the low powered "Cowboy" ammunition for practice and .38 Special hollowpoints for self defense; and you can move up to Magnums when you have some experience and can learn to handle the greater recoil without getting into bad habits.

To use the revolver effectively, you must be able to shoot it double action. Pull the trigger all the way until the gun goes off. Some little hand strength is required, but excercise and practice will build it up. And you might find that shooting is fun and do a lot of it. There is a world famous training center in Arizona that it would pay you to look into, Gunsite. They can teach you everything you need to know.
http://www.gunsite.com/home.htm

I am sorry that you found a stigma to those of us who own guns. Perhaps you are learning that we are ordinary folks. I think more normal than those who deny the need or desire for an honest citizen to have a gun or guns.
 
Now that I've worked through the stigma attached to them and the folks who own them,
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"What stigma?" I ask rhetorically. If you're going to do this, you have to get it straight in your head that you're doing the right thing. If there's a stigma, it's the people that harbor and cultivate it that have the problem.

I live in a remote part of New Mexico's wild west and want a gun for defense primarily.
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Defense against people, animals, or both? If animals, what animals?

I only shot once with a pistol and noticed the magazine jammed from time to time and one had to empty it. It was kind of a hassle.
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Something was wrong with that gun. Don't give up on autoloaders just on account of that gun.

Carried concealed or open? Is this something that's going to be carried with you at all times, or a "house gun".

Is there anyone else living with you that you need to be careful of (kids, for instance)?

And you will take a class somewhere, right?
 
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Hey Scamp, welcome. As you can see I'm a noob here too. I recently just purchased my first firearm as well. I picked up a Ruger GP-100 .357 with a 4 inch barrel. Most of the time I shoot .38's to save a little money. I've put about 1000 rounds through it and it seems to keep getting better.

I think the best advice though is to just get out to some gun stores and shows to get your hands on as many as you can. Find something that feels right for you. Any respectable company like S&W or Ruger will produce a good product.

Good luck in your quest. Ask everything you ever wanted on these boards and you'll find some good answers from many experienced members. Check back and let us know what you pick up.

FYI- if you check out the 4-inch Ruger GP-100 and like it just know you can get compact grips. I just got them in for my girlfriend (she also has small hands).
 
Hi Scamp! Welcome to the forum!

Summary:
Recommendations:
S&W Model 64 (.38 Special) or Model 65 (.357 Magnum) - see links below.

Also, if you can, sign up at a local range for basic handgun shooting instruction. NRA certified instructors can teach you safe handling as well as how to shoot the gun you want to buy. Please be sure to seek out a qualified instructor as firearms are, by their nature, dangerous (like a power tool would be in the wrong hands).

Please be sure to obtain eye and hearing protection before shooting too.

Some indoor ranges will rent popular guns. This is a good way to find out if the guy you're looking at performs well in your hands. As stated before, get some instruction before shooting at the range or ask an experienced shooter to go with you.


Discussion:
Both the guns you describe, the model 64 or Model 67 are good guns and it's certainly hard to go wrong with a well maintained (or new) .38 Special revolver. The models you named are chambered for the .38 Special (sort of a "short" .357 Magnum).

I'd probably lean towards the model 67 simply because it has adjustable sights. However since you are new to revolvers, a fixed sight model would probably suit you just as well.

Smith & Wesson built a large number of revolvers on the same size frame (called the K-Frame) and it's one of the most popular revolver lines ever made. These guns were favored by police for most of the 20th century.

K-Frame revolvers are the following models;
10, 14, 15, 64, 67, -- all are .38 special guns with 4" barrels (the M14 is a 6")
13, * , 19, 65, 66, -- are the .357 counterparts to the .38 guns.

In the above list, the S&W Model 64 .38 Special is roughly the same sized gun as the Model 65 .357 Magnum. Similarly, the Model 10 .38 Special is roughly the same gun as the Model 13 .357. Model numbers starting with a "6" are stainless steel guns while the others are blue-steel models.

Most of the .357 Magnum K-Frames are being phased out by S&W in favor of the slightly larger "L-Frame" (Models 586, 686, 520, 619 & 620).

As a recommendation, I'd suggest you look at the Model 65 - a six-shot, 4" barreled .357 Magnum, Stainless Steel gun, with the "Heavy" barrel and fixed sights. The advantage is that you can also shoot .38 Special cartridges, including the higher power .38 +P self-defense loads instead of the full-blamo .357 Magnum rounds. The same gun may be found in a blue-steel version, usually in a used-gun display, as the Model 13. Some of these guns are available with a 3" barrel which many believe to be ideal as a carry gun. (And you're not losing a lot of power by using a 3" barrel instead of a 4").

If you want adjustable sights, it's the Model 66 in Stainless Steel (and you get the option of barrels in 2.5", 4" or 6"). Likewise, the blue-steel version of this gun (again only as a used gun) is the Model 19.

S&W lists it's "MSRP" for the Model 65 at $563, however since dealers set their own pricing (based on their costs) even if he's charging $525 you might be able to get the gun cheaper by bargaining. Especially if this is a first gun and you have a few extra $$ for a cleaning kit and two boxes of .38 special ammo. :D

If your hands fit the K-Frame S&W, there's no reason not to stick with something you find comfortable. The next smaller sized frame (J-Frame) are typically those 2" and 3" barreled 5-shot "snub nosed" revolvers. However S&W has just released a J-Frame with 5" long barrel suited to smaller hands. It's pricey, however, with an MSRP of $671. See the 5" Model 60 here.



If you have any more questions, post 'em. You'll likely have lots of helpful advice coming your way! :)
 
The Security Sixes are decent guns, and as rugged as you can get, great deals to.. usually around 200-250 for a good quality one.
 
Welcome!

I'd be tempted to recommend what I have -- a 4" S&W 686. However, I suspect that it would not be the right one for you, since even though it is a fine, accurate revolver, it is not really a lightweight by any stretch. I suspect that you would find it too heavy. I think you would find the suggestions and recommendations that the others have given to be good sound ones. You might also want to consider a 3" barrel Ruger SP-101: strong, fairly light, and a flexible barrel length.
 
I agree with you. The M67 S&W is an excellent firearm. The 357 Magnum is good for most anything and the best 357 Magnum platform I can suggest is the Colt Trooper MKIII in 4". I have a S&W M28 that is large in size. The K frame M19 S&Ws are great weapons. 4" is a good compromise in barrel length. The Ruger GP-100 series aren't bad either. I like the S&W K frames. The grips seem to be almost unlimited in configuration. You can size them down or make them larger, add finger grooves, smooth wood, checkered wood or rubber, Tyler T-grips, pearl, faux ivory or genuine stag grips are available. www.eaglegrips.com There are adjustable sighted models, fixed sight and even scopes can be fitted. I would say that a 6" M19 357 Magnum by S&W would be a competent all around revolver for open carry. If you obtain a CCW, a M19 S&W in 3" and round butt would be an excellent choice. You have fired some great revolvers already. Keep practicing, take a NRA safety course and shop around.
 
Take a class, or find a buddy to shoot with, it doesn,t matter yet what gun until you become comfotable around them and while shooting. All the advice you have recieved here is good. My advice would go alot with a 22, shoot alot until you feel you are ready for larger caliber. Then decide if you need house gun, or concealed. You never know you might turn out like me (I,ll bet you can,t buy just one.) :D
 
Thank you much!

Thank you much for all the advice. It is all useful. It's great learning about ammo, safety training, rentals, grips, links,gun history,your experiences, adjustable sites or not, costs, and I'm trying to get a handle on the difference between double and single action....Please keep the advice and input coming, and I'll let you know how I'm coming along with this.

In answer to some of your questions, I would like to shoot as a hobby and not have my gun stuck in a drawer some place. Safety is ALWAYS a concern but there are NO kids in the house. I hike a lot and want to carry the gun with me comfortably. Animals that may pose a threat may be rattlers and other venomous snakes, stray dogs or coyotes going after my dog, and two-leggeds that I wouldn't put animals down by calling them animals....

I'll make some calls about signing up for a class and see where I can rent guns too. There's Calibers in Albuquerque and Tina's Gun shop in Santa Fe. Any suggestions from you would be appreciated. A certified instructor is a great idea. I don't want to learn anyone else's bad habits and I hope to shoot a few before buying one. Thanks again. Keep the suggestions coming!
 
RUGER, GP100, 3" BARREl, FIXED SIGHTS, Model number I beleive is kgpf-331. This gun also has smaller grips than its 4" and 6" inch versions. it will fit your hand better. The slightly added wieght of the rugers over the smiths will help in the recoil dept. This gun is in .357 cal which means it can also shoot .38s which are lighter in recoil. ( the sp101 ruger lineup is also good but do to smaller frame size can be a bit much on recoil dept with .357 mag loads. You also have 5 shots with the sp rather than 6 with gp models, both are fine guns I know I own them) The only downfall possibly with the 3" gp100 is most dealers for some dumb reason dont stock it so you just may need to wait a few days while your dealer has one ordered for you. However I doubt you will regret it since it fits the bill IMHO. :)
 
Scamp:

I noticed where you have concern about snakes, and snake protection is one of your goals with your new gun. And at the same time, you would like protection against larger predators of the 4 and the 2 legged variety. From what I understand, these are mutually exclusive roles. Let me explain:

For the larger predator variety of threat (either 4 or 2 legged), you will want to have a good hollow point or semi-wadcutter type of ammunition loaded. In New Mexico, I'd advise going with the hollow points, as semi-wadcutters are more for bear defense. While such ammo will truly do a number on a snake, the ranges involved and the target size involved makes such ammo less than optimal. They present a small target and are hard to hit.

What you really need against a snake is some sort of shot shell. Yes, they do make shot shells for handguns that are intended for snake protection. Unfortunately, those have 2 big disadvantages: First, they are of very limited effectiveness against larger predators. Second, they do not perform well in longer barrels: the added twist of the longer barrel (like a 4") causes the shot pattern to form a donut, with a void right in the center of the pattern -- right where you are aiming. Not good.

I'd say that with that in mind, you might want to also consider carrying a short barrel derringer or one of those NAA .22lr mini-revolvers, and have it be a dedicated snake-shot platform (yes, they make snake-shot loads in a .22, they work), and leave your .38 or .357 loaded for larger threats.
 
Welcome to the world of shooting sports. Hopefully you will take the advice above, get competent training in safety and marksmanship (reduces frustration to have a professional trainer) and get involved with recreatonal shooting: IPSC, Bullseye, IDPA, ICORE (S&W treats this group lavishly), silhouette, Cowboy Action (great family fun) and plain old target shooting (great meditation).

Perceived recoil is greater with light weight guns within a particular ammo type. One major factor in comfort is the muzzle blast ("shock wave") and noise.

Longer barrels give more weight, less apparent recoil, less muzzle blast, somewhat less noise and better sighting radius for more accurate shooting at distances you might encounter on your land.

Short barrels (under 4") are primarily for concealment, produce more muzzle blast, somewhat more noise and are more difficult to aim at any but combat distances.

A 6" barrel is a great general purpose choice in terms of weight and accuracy if you are not in need of concealment. A 4" barrel runs close and is easier to maneuver quickly.

Uh, oh yeah. Don't start with .357 magnum ammo. The .357 magnum revolvers can use .38 spl which is cheaper, quieter, easier to learn with and the mainstay with competitive shooters.

Enjoy.
 
Welcome...I agree with Pezo. I have both the GP-100, and the SP101. Unless you have a really small hand you will probably want to change the grips on the SP101. I did. I find it smooth with .38Spl. +p, but the recoil is a little heavy with .357, and I suck up recoil quite well.

A few years back I was mountain climbing up in Northern New Hampshire. I was open carrying my GP-100, .357. On the lower part of the trail I was confronted by a snake, coiled up in the middle of the trail. The snake was probably harmless, because poisonous snakes are rare in Maine & NH. But, taking no chances I threw a rock at it. It didn't move! So I took a hip shot with my .357. I don't think I hit it, but I did come close enough for the impact to put it at least 3 feet in the air, and off the trail.

Holstering my wheelgun, I moved on down the now free of snakes trail :D . Now for real packing in the wild, I just ordered the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan. :D Check it out on the Ruger website. It's not available yet, but will be soon. It should retail for about $650.00 somewhat over your $500.00 starting point.

Good luck
 
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You guys are awesome.

I can't thank you enough for all your input. Unfortunately I can't afford a variety of guns to handle different concerns regarding defence be it 4-leggeds,2-leggeds,no-leggeds,sport,something small and light for conceal and carry..... so I'm looking for a gun that "gives the most bang for the buck". I'm liking all I hear about the RugerGP100 3in.barrel to get me started but concerned that I'll have less recoil and more accuracy with a 4in. barrel. I understand the advantages of the .38 over .357 ammo but not the hollow points. Apparently, different grip choices are offered but are they through the shop, a gunsmith, or the co?
My top priority is to have a comfortable gun so that it doesn't just stay in a drawer. I want to enjoy my gun like I do a good pair of hiking boots. :D Thanks again for helping me find the right one.
 
Ruger GP100 is a strong serviceable gun. A 4" barrel will add a little weight out front where it will damp recoil somewhat. It has an inch longer sight radius which will help accuracy somewhat. The 4" model is available with adjustable sights which will help accuracy a good deal by letting you correct for changes in the point of impact vs point of aim according to your eyesight and grip and the ammunition being shot.

The purpose of a hollowpoint bullet is to expand upon impact, knock a larger hole in an assailant, and cause him to cease being a threat more effectively. The advantage of .38 Special ammunition (which can be shot in a .357 Magnum revolver) is that it and has less recoil. It is less powerful, but a hit with a .38 beats a loud miss with a magnum.

Different grips are available from the factory or aftermarket makers. Herretts will even make grips to fit your hand... at a price. Hogue offers a selection, as do Pachmayr. Suggest you avoid finger groove grips, they are made to fit guys with big fat fingers and do not come out right on a medium or small hand. Replacement requires a few minutes with a screwdriver, it is not a shop job.
 
If you are in snake country then you can load the first 1 or 2 chambers with snake shot and the rest of the chambers with hollowpoints or SWCs. Even if you run across bigger attackers the first 2 snakeshots should still score hits (which usually will slow any attacker down) and the follow up hollowpoints should end the confrontation. No animal (even humans) likes being peppered with shot and the noise frightens most of them away.
 
Scamp,

Think of guns like cars. There are more than a few good quality models on the market at any time, but that doesn't mean that what works for one person will work for another.

Test drive guns before you buy one. You should be able to find a rental range in your area and that will allow you to rent and shoot various guns before you make a decision.

The GP100 is an excellent handgun, but it's pretty heavy and is a good sized revolver. You will probably find it difficult to conceal and carry. The 686 is pretty much identical in size and weight. The revolvers mentioned by BillCA are a bit more svelte but are still good sized handguns.

You are correct that larger guns are easier to shoot in general, but if concealed carry is one of your goals, you may need to compromise a bit to achieve it.

I'd also recommend that you not limit yourself to one class of handgun at this point. You should explore your options--including autopistols. While autopistols can be a bit more complicated to learn, if you are willing to put forth a very modest amount of effort, you'll be able to master one with no problems. Since you can't afford to buy several pistols, you will want to make sure that what you do buy works for you.

Keep your options open and experiment--you'll find something that works for you.
 
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