Advantages / disadvantages of the "open slide"-design

S

simonrichter

New member
Are there any advantages of an "open slide"-design apart from saving weight? With the retreat of any other than tilting-barrel systems this design feature is seemingly becoming extinct (with the new APX, e.g., Beretta seems to move toward the mainstream of pistol design as well...).
Even in the straight-blowback fraction where a closed slide would not be necessary by design, only few models feature an open slide any more.
 
I've got 2 pistols that have an open slide, the Beretta 92 and a Glock 17L. I thought the 17L came with a ported barrel when the model first came out which might explain why the slide is designed the way it is. Maybe it was done to keep the slide weight the same as a regular 17 so they could use the same recoil spring assembly. They've since done away with the ported barrel on that model as far as I know, mine is just a regular barrel and ones I've seen since were all regular as well. No clue on the Beretta, maybe it was done to reduce overall weight or cooling of the barrel somehow?

I haven't had any issues come up due to the open slide design. Those guns have been reliable for me and work the same as all the others I own, no better, no worse. Truth be told I think the balance on my 17L is better than my regular 17. Not sure that really qualifies as a pro, just my take on it.
 
It was my understanding that the Glock 17L and the 34 both had an "open" slide so that the weight and balance of the guns with more material up front, wouldn't vary greatly from the 17 upon which they were based. (it was a weight-control thing.


Beretta may have had a different reason -- as they've used that design in a number of the guns that lead up to the Model 92/96.
 
Beretta first used the open slide design because the guns were disassembled by pushing the barrel back and up, something not possible with a closed slide. When they designed guns in which the takedown no longer required an open slide, they kept it because it had become something that was associated with Beretta.

It is not the first time a company has kept an obsolete or unnecessary feature that had become a symbol of the company. Colt kept their color case hardening for the SAA, long after it was needed to reduce wear from moving parts.

Jim
 
Depending on your point of view the open slide of the Beretta either lets dirt in and make the gun less reliable. Or allows dirt to fall out and makes the gun more reliable. I've heard arguments both ways. I don't really have an opinion other than that in my experience the 92 is pretty reliable.
 
I noticed an increased recoil flip in the Beretta M9s compared to other closed slide automatics even of larger caliber. Never had a malfunction with the Berettas and have shot 1000s of rounds through them in sandy, snowy, mucky, muddy, cruddy, etc. environments. I have no idea whether or not the perceived recoil or reliability is connected to the missing metal atop the slide. I am not an engineer. The Beretta 92 series are reliable, durable pistols, IMHO.
 
I think Beretta, trying to keep their legacy from the 1934 design that became the Brigadier 9mm (using a Walther lockup) kept the open design.

Note while I don't really care for the Beretta/Walther design, there are many open slide military weapons that work. M1 Garand/M14/M1 carbine being the most notable.

Deaf
 
at least I learned that the G17L has kind of a "Window" on top of it's slide (it's still not a completely "open" design, I daresay).

There's in a point in the fact that both the Beretta 92 and the Walther P28 share both an open slide and the "locking block" system, maybe these two features are somehow connected?
 
Disadvantage of the open slide is I burn my hand when "showing clear".

After shooting a stage during action pistol matches, you are told to "show clear" which means opening and locking back the slide to show the gun is cleared.

To do this, I put my support hand over the slide drawing it back and locking the slide with the thumb of my strong hand.

After shooting 2 or more mags in a string, the barrel gets hot and I burn the palm of my support hand.

I don't have that problem with my Colts.
 
tallball said:
I have also heard that it aids in ejection, even if that wasn't the original purpose.
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I've heard that, too -- but can't understand how that design could have ANY EFFECT on ejection...

Maybe I've misunderstood what these folks mean, but it seems that the fired round should never be anywhere but still connected to the extractor and pressed against the breech face until it hits the ejector as the slide moves to the rear.

For that fired/spent round to even get near the open part of the slide at the front, it will have had to come loose and maybe have dropped down; and that would arguably lead to something like a "stovepipe" failure. I don't understand what an open slide can do to make THAT better.
 
the retreat of any other than tilting-barrel systems
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Simon, you are overlooking the rotating barrel models, which all seem to be from Europe, like you :D

The Stoeger Cougar, Beretta Px4 and Grand Power pistols are excellent guns, and do not tilt the barrel.

OBTW I just saw a J&G Sales online advert for the Grand Power, new at 300 US dollars! Which doesn't help you much, Simon, but that is such a good price I may have to order one.

Ordering things I have never seen in person. Danggit, that is only one step removed from being addicted to the cable TV shopping channel. :eek:

Bart Noir
 
Simon, you are overlooking the rotating barrel models, which all seem to be from Europe, like you
Click to expand...

since I'm not only from Europe, but from Austria as well, my horizon does not extend well beyond the realm of GLOCK :D

Joking aside, I'm well aware of the alternatives to the tilting barrel approach, but these are, in fact, few and getting fewer:
> Beretta uses both the rotating barrel and the locking block, but seems to go away from these as well with its new APX model,
> the Remington R51 never quite made it for liftoff,
> then there are the PMR 30 and the FiveSeven (but those are technically only delayed blowbacks and not actually locked systems)
> and, last but not least, there are some Russian exotics which will never make it to Western markets; and that's about it, afaik.

Compared to the surge of makers and models on the market, that is still a small and shrinking minority, imho...
 
@kraigwy:

Disadvantage of the open slide is I burn my hand when "showing clear".

After shooting a stage during action pistol matches, you are told to "show clear" which means opening and locking back the slide to show the gun is cleared.

To do this, I put my support hand over the slide drawing it back and locking the slide with the thumb of my strong hand.

After shooting 2 or more mags in a string, the barrel gets hot and I burn the palm of my support hand.

I don't have that problem with my Colts.
Click to expand...

Never shot action pistol matches, nor ever held a 92, let alone shot one, so my Q is: does the slide not lock back on an empty mag?

Just curiousity from a 1911 guy...
 
does the slide not lock back on an empty mag?
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Yes but often after shooting a string, you have ammo in the gun and one in the chamber.

At that point you are told to "unload and show clear" meaning you drop the magazine, rack the slide ejecting a round, lock the slide back, show the range officer it is clear, the drop the slide and hammer and re-holster before you move off the line.

So I hit the slide release with my right thumb (shooting hand) reach over with the left hand grabbing and racking the slide.........that's where I burn my hand on the exposed barrel.

Added to that a lot of people, including me, hold the gun with the left hand and try to catch the ejected round with my right, which gives the barrel more time to burn my hand....................of course I don't have that problem with my Colts (1911s).
 
I have a question for you experts,,,

I have a question for you experts.

Is there a difference in reliability/performance,,,
Between the Beretta Cheetah and the Browning BDA?

If I understand this correctly,,,
They are the same pistol except for the open slide.

The Beretta has the open slide,,,
The Browning has the closed slide.

Is there any significant reliability difference between the two?

All I know for certain is that the Beretta is prettier. :o

Aarond

.
 
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