Actual capacities of Tanfoglio Witness 10mm and .45s

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OK, so I discovered that the Witness 10mm (at least the Hunter), holds 12 rounds in the magazine, not 14 as advertised. 12 is very hard to get in - nice and snug.

13 is either impossible or so close to impossible that there's no possible way it would feed in from cycling if you could get it in - it would be tighter than a - well, something really tight. Nearly broke my thumb trying to force in 13. So it either won't go it or won't as a practical matter since it won't add to total functional capacity.

So aside from the obvious misrepresentation in over-stating actual capacity by 17% (2 rounds), my real questions are as follows:

1. The .45 acp magazine is said to hold 10 - so how many does it actually hold - either 8 or 9 I'm guessing. Or maybe it actually holds 10?

2. Where does one buy 10mm mags that hold 14 or 15? And if they exist, do they work equally well, or "not as well"?

Interestingly, the 10mm came with 3 recoil springs of different weights. Does the .45 acp as well? If so, it would be a very intriguing .45 Super-ready rig out of the box. Arguably the ultimate home defense handgun - or of course, a "hunter" as intended by the sub-model's name. Though I prefer 10mm for a woodsy gun, short of brownie country. Actually, I'm in brownie country now, but I still have carried the Witness on shorter jaunts with the dogs, closer to civilization.

12 or more than 12, this pistol is a keeper, to be sure. 12+1 is still adequate for my personal purposes. :)

https://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/witness-hunter/
 
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The Witness .45 and the CZ-97B .45 both use the same Mec-Gar magazines.
These hold 10 rounds and the mag body is plainly stamped with "5" and "10" at the holes in the mag.

When new even Superman's fingers aren't strong enough to get the 10th round in, and body builders have difficulty doing 9.
I used a magazine loader tool to get mine fully loaded.

Then I just loaded them up and let them stand for a month or so.
That allowed the mag spring to "seat" and now I can load the full 10 without too much trauma, although I still use the mag loader.

As for recoil springs, I bought my limited production actual stainless steel Witness in the early 90's and it came with only one spring.
I've read over the years that the owner should install a stronger spring, but I've never had any issues with the stock spring.

I've read that the 10mm does need a stronger spring, depending on how hot the ammo is, which is probably why it came with the extra springs.
Apparently there was a problem with the early 10mm Witness with a standard spring having problems with cracks in the slide or frame.
 
I have the Witness P in 10mm. Mine holds 14 in the mag and one in the tube. I too had a really hard time getting them in there the first few times. It eventually loosened up.
 
I'm not familiar with the Hunter but my steel Witness uses K10 marked Mec-Gar mags. The original mags were good for 15 rounds but had feeding problems so Tanfoglio went with the Mec-Gars. I bought a Grams spring kit for my magazine thinking that I would get an extended base plate and increase the capacity. The Grams spring and follower actually increased the capacity of the K10 mag to 15 and it feeds fine. Only downside is that it doesn't drop free until it gets down to 14 rounds.
 
My elite match holds 14+1 rnds I bought it earlier this year. Yes the last two can be a pain to put in. I don't think Its any harder than my SAR K2 that holds 14+1 though.
 
My Stock holds 15+1. It uses Mecgar magazines, which by the way are super nice magazines! I know that I load the Mecgars up to 14 and then one in the chamber. The original magazine may not be a Mecgar - it is polished nickel or chrome and the Mecgar mags are polished blue.

I haven't tried to stuff 15 in the Mecgars; I just go with 14 and load one in the chamber. It's easier to keep track of 15 rounds while I'm shooting.
 
OK, I was able to get a 13th one in, but it's way too tight to be reliable, in feeding from the mag. There is less than zero chance of ever getting 14 in, no matter how much more it loosens yet, seems to me. If it does loosen, it might be a functional 13+1 at some point.

Meanwhile, I will try the Mec-Gars; thanks for all the input.

Dfariswheel, thanks. In other words, it holds 9 after awhile, and eventually/maybe 10, but 10 is not where you'd want to stake your life on it feeding from the mag for the 2nd shot...in my opinion (sounds like).

Bottom line, to summarize: they're 12/8 when new, and 13/9 when loosened, while maintaining reasonably certain reliability for a life saving tool (+1 in chamber of course), sounds like.

Thanks again, that helps me. Though I can't imagine I'd ever need more than 12+1 for this gun's main purpose, a woods defense gun, unless I suppose a large pack of wolves or feral dogs is after me, ha ha.
 
Dfariswheel, thanks. In other words, it holds 9 after awhile, and eventually/maybe 10, but 10 is not where you'd want to stake your life on it feeding from the mag for the 2nd shot...in my opinion (sounds like).


No, even brand new and super hard to load it was 100% reliable with all 10 rounds
It's never even acted like it wasn't going to feed and I've never had any stoppages.
 
My 45 mags take 10 rounds no problem using an Uplula mag loader. I haven't tried it without it. My 9mm Match's K9 mags will take 17 rounds no problem too, again using the Uplula.
 
The tenth round in my 97b is a bit snug but doable. It's a pain to achieve 10+1 as I have to really seat the mag hard.

My P01 on the other hand has more leeway with seating, and I suspect it's by design as it is a police pistol.
 
UPDATE on the 10mm mags:

OK, my initial impressions were essentially correct.

I got two more of the exact same factory mags, marked "FT- Made in Italy" and "K10".

They purport to hold 14 rounds.

They do not.

All three of them are the same - after leaving them loaded, and loading and unloading to compress the springs, the results are the same. I've been around pistol mags long enough to know how they work and how much change you can see over time, and these will not change (absent a different spring).

They hold THIRTEEN, not 14.

However, as I said, as a practical matter, they hold TWELVE, not 13. The 13th round remains incredibly, un-believably tight, and damned near impossible to get in, on all 3 of these, even after having left loaded. The 13th round is so tight that I'm truly suprised it hasn't bent the feed lips out and damaged the mag. It's the epitome of "just barely", and you need to almost break your thumb to get it in. Ain't no amount of force could ever fit another one in, no matter whether the springs "soften" a bit over time.

So, others with different experiences of them holding 14, clearly must have different mags. The new ones, shipping now, and sold with the pistols now, in 10mm, without any doubt hold 12 in reality, but technically you could shove in 13 if you want to risk damaging your mag, like pain in your thumbs, and have an unreasonably high chance of a stoppage.

Just FYI. Still happy with the gun though. 12 + 1 is plenty enough for my purposes.

Actually, let me revise that a bit. For a BACKUP mag, where you're going to insert it into a pistol with slide locked back then drop slide, they will likely be quite reliable holding 13. I personally wouldn't do it just because it's so tight that I believe it could bend the feed lips. As for keeping the carried mag in the gun with 13 plus one in the pipe - no way. Not for defense. For competition, sure, why not?
 
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I cannot recall exactly what pistol was giving me the full cap P'sITA. May have been the sigma that after two weeks under a full-load was still not able to fill the mag with finger pressure. I disassembled the magazine, removed the spring, measured the angle in which the top hold the follows, cranked 100% into vice-clamp overnight, still nothing. repeat for 48 hours and viola, I was able to fit the mag to capacity, problem solved for me. My worry was, did I over-stress the spring when vice-clamping it to obviously remove some of the strength of the steel by applying and unapplying stress? not sure, and still not syre since I sold the pistol about a year later. but even though still very stiff after the vice treatment, it was easy enough after 6-700 rounds/reloads. I have always observed the practice of fully loading the mag, then outing one in the chamber, leaving my mag -1 from full-cap.....people say this is a method that yields no longer term reliability, but it just makes me feel better, especially since some mags are so tight that top cartridge will get dented by the ramp that run to the bolt-face to grab the next round, this not only concerns me because the case is getting deformed and may not fully chamber, but I also envision a scenario where that pressure is so tight against the slight that it could possibly inhibit the slide from reaching full rearward momentum and even be aable to scoop of the first bullet in line. Oh, thinking about it now, I also have a 20 C-Products 9mm 20round SMG mag that I cannot fit the entire 20 into with serious force being applying to a pre-weakened spring.

so that's my solution, good or bad...
 
I got two more of the exact same factory mags, marked "FT- Made in Italy" and "K10".

They purport to hold 14 rounds.

They do not.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this. I just bought two K10 mags a few weeks ago. They both take 14 rounds, no problem. :confused:
 
My Sar K2-45, a .45acp cousin of the above pistols, comes with 14rd Mec-Gar mags. I don't know if they'll fit in any of their cousins, but they'll hold the 14, although I always downloaded one. They are the only mags that made me feel like the springs were weak and would fail if kept fully loaded. That said, I carried the Sar as a duty weapon about a year or so, and never had a malfunction.

Also, the Mec-Gar's did not come cut to reverse the mag release.
 
I just received a new EAA catalog today.

The Hunter is listed at 14 rounds for the 10mm BUT....that does not indicate whether that means the magazine holds 14 rounds or the GUN holds a total of 14 rounds, 13 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.

Under the spare magazine section the 10mm magazines are listed as holding 9 or 12 for the Compact models, and 10 or 14 for the full sized.
The catalog lists upc codes and sku codes for the mags.
 
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