Acquired this pre war Belgium Browning Auto 5

[Bill Akins]

I've had three Remington 11's. One with the button safety made in the 1940's that was a two in the tube ONLY "sportsman" that I converted to a five shot tube using another tube, spring and fore end. Had a friend who wanted it so badly that I sold it to him. Still have the two with the in the trigger guard "suicide safeties". One with a Cutts comp and one without. So I'm already familiar with the recoil spring and friction ring settings. Of course these are basically the same as the Browning Auto 5, but I never actually had an Auto 5 until now. I picked this one up at auction recently and it's a Belgium. According to its serial number on the receiver (that matches the solid rib barrel) it was made in 1940. Must have been just before the Belgium ones stopped production due to the Nazi invasion. 1940 Belgium production serial numbers were...
1940: Belgium serial number range 218809 - 224596. Mine falls about 1000 before the last number. Dating from 1940 I can't (shouldn't) shoot steel shot.

12 gauge. Solid rib barrel with Cutts compensator is 25 3/4" with a near excellent bright strong bore. Factory marked (***) to indicate the choke is cylinder bore, which means it has no choke and that is somewhat unusual and makes me wonder if it is possible the Cutts comp was installed at the factory. However I do not know if the Belgiums ever factory installed Cutts comps. But if they didn't, then it seems unusual and strange to me that the gun came from the factory with no barrel choke of any kind. Most of the auto 5's I've seen are either full or modified choke barrels.

I'm not a big fan of vent or solid ribs (that this one has), thinking all they do is increase weight. But I'll take a solid rib over a vent rib because rust forms in the vents on vent ribs and is hard to get to. But this solid rib one had several things going for it that I really liked since this will be a shooter and not particularly a collectors piece. Having fixed a few cracks in my Remy 11's from previous owners not knowing how to set the friction rings or using weak recoil springs, I really liked the aftermarket Bell and Carlson synthetic stock with cushy recoil pad and fore end since I won't ever have to worry about it getting cracks like the wood ones do. I'm also a big fan of the old Cutts compensators. I know folks say they are loud to those standing to the side of you while you shoot, but I like them. The Cutts comp also has the advantage of allowing me to set my friction ring to one setting and shoot all loads without having to change the friction ring setting. See this drawing for one setting for all loads using a Cutts comp.....

I have the same Cutts comp on one of my Remy 11's too. I also think it aids in the gun's swing on clays.

Cutts compensators have not been in production for a long time. Although unless factory installed, serious collectors say it decreases the value of the gun. But as time marches on, and Cutts comps become more scarce than they already are, I believe not only will the Cutts comps themselves increase in value, but may increase the value of the gun. I believe the day will come when instead of decreasing the value of the gun, it will instead INCREASE the value because there were a lot more auto 5's without the Cutts comps than with. But whether they do or not, I still like them and their retro look. Recently I saw one go on Gunbroker for $100.00 just for the Cutts tube body without any chokes to go with it! I also checked on the Bell and Carlson stocks and they are about $100.00 too. So if I just bought the Cutts comp without any chokes for it, and bought the Bell and Carlson stock, that would be $200.00 right there and since I only have a grand total of $318.00 out the door on the gun, that means I only really paid $118.00 for the gun. Since I got the gun for $265.00 auction win, with $40.00 S&H, $3.00 Ship insurance and my dealer who's a friend only charged me $10.00 for the transfer fee, my total out the door was $318.00

It also had a tube cap with built in sling swivel and the Bell and Carlson butt stock has the attachment for a sling swivel too. Nice to not have to carry it all the time and to be able to sling it.

With it being Belgium made, pre war, with the Cutts comp and synthetic Bell and Carlson stock that won't ever crack, sling swivel tube cap, no rust to speak of, I think I got a real nice deal for what I paid. It's in real nice condition too with almost no rust except for a few pin pricks of light rust that I can probably remove with some fine steel wool or using a wood wedge with oil. Already fired it and it operated flawlessly. So I FINALLY got myself the humpback Browning auto 5 to go with my Remy 11's. I like antique guns because they are all machined steel with no plastic trigger guards or metal alloys and if properly taken care of, will last literally for centuries. Plus the fit and workmanship of those bygone days you just don't get on production guns anymore. Here's the pics.

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[Bill Akins]

The one thing I don't understand is why I have to push in the slide release button to load it. I thought you didn't have to do that with Browning auto fives and I've even read where some folks had taken those parts out of an auto five and put them in a Rem model 11 so they wouldn't have to push in the button to load it. Is is because my auto five was made in 1940 and has the suicide safety that was before the quick loading where that button didn't have to be pushed or something like that? If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks.

 

[Bill Akins]

I found out that the reason I have to push in the button to load the mag tube, is because my auto 5 was made in 1940 before Browning used the two piece carrier/lifter that they started using in the 1950's where you didn't have to push the button in like you do on a Remy 11. I plan to get a two piece carrier/lifter for it since I've read it is usually a drop in, or requires very little fitting. Then I won't have to push the button in anymore, and I understand that with that two piece unit, as soon as you load a shell into the tube, it will lift it and release the bolt chambering it. So I'm on the hunt for three two piece carrier/lifters. One for my Browning and two for my two Remy 11's. I've read the Browning two piece one will work on the Remy 11's too with little to no fitting except perhaps enlarging two holes. I've read of many people doing it.

I picked up another Belgium Browning barrel for it that is a couple of inches shorter than my serialed to the gun factory Cutts comped barrel that also has a Cutts compensator on it. Being shorter, it makes the gun be handier for home defense when I removed the longer choke that came with it and put my shorty spreader choke on it. Here's a pic.

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[tangolima]

Nice A5! I have been wanting one myself. I almost bought one from a shop's bargain rack for $250. It needs some works, but the man didn't want to cut the price. I wasn't doing well in my extra cash at the time, so I passed. I still regret I did.

A few comments if I may.

The setting of friction piece for different load. That's what I do

Light load: ^^^ ] I }
Heavy load: ^^^ [ I }
Magnum: ^^^ [ I ] I }

Where
^^^ is the spring;
] is steel friction ring, concave side to the left;
[ is steel friction ring, concave side to the right;
I is the friction piece;
} is the barrel ring, it has its concave side.

Note that the friction piece, I, never in direct contact with the spring, ^^^, so that it won't get chewed up by the spring steel. For magnum, 2 friction pieces are installed, always protected by steel rings.

Not familiar with the cutt compensator. I suppose it is similar to muzzle brake. Perhaps friction piece won't be needed. But you want to make sure the action is slowed down enough, or it will bashed on the rear end of the frame.

Although composite stock may work better in practice, wooden furniture is always more appropriate for such a classic gun, my opinion only. Properly bedded it will not crack. There is glass bedding technique for A5.

2-piece lifter is nice. But it has become rather expensive, > $100. 1-piece lifter could be a bit clumsy, but it is original. I wouldn't mind keeping it and save the money for a good set of wood stock.

-TL

 

[Bill Akins]

Glad you liked it TangoLima, and thanks for your comments.


I have a question I'm curious about that hopefully someone can answer for me here. I found this below pic online of a Remington model 11 with a very short barrel with a cutts compensator on it. In looking at the pic, you'll notice how close the cutts comp is to the screw cap on the loading tube and also how close the cutts is to the front of the fore end wood. It would appear to me that there is not enough distance between them for the length of travel the barrel needs under recoil. Because since the barrel recoils about 3 & 1/2 inches it would seem the distance of the cutts comp, would cause it to bang into the loading tube cap as well as the fore end wood. I too wanted to acquire another barrel that I could shorten as much as legally possible and have the cutts comp permanently attached to the barrel via silver solder or hard solder so that the cutts comp would actually be legally a permanent part of the barrel according to ATF rules. Of course the screw on screw off chokes would not aid in adding legal length to the barrel. So I would have to make sure that my barrel length, coupled with the length of the cutts comp tube body permanently attached via silver solder or hard solder (which ATF recognizes as being permanently attached), without any choke screwed in, would make it the legal length of 18 inches without the chokes screwed in, and then when I attached a screw in choke like my spreader tube, it would only extend the barrel length a little over an inch. Making it about a 19 or so inch barrel including the length of the permanently attached cutts tube and the screw on spreader choke. Which would be a very nice shorty home defense gun or even woods gun in heavy brush. I've been considering this for some time to do as a project. But I was always afraid that if I got the cutts comp too close to the loading tube, that it would smack into it under recoil. But after seeing this pic, I am wondering if there is just enough clearance on the SIDE of the cutts comp body to clear the loading tube cap, but it doesn't look like there is enough room to not smack into the front of the wooden fore end. Look at the pic below and see what I mean. How could the rear of that cutts compensator not smack into the front of the wooden fore end under recoil?

 

[tangolima]

They may have hogged out some of the wood to make room for the compensator. I don't think it's such a good idea though. Gas coming out of the slits will eventually break something.

As much as I'm fond of the a5, use it as a home defense gun I would not. There are better choices of weapons for that.

-TL

 

[CLC]

Would cutting the length of the barrel effect the weight thus making it not feed reliably? Or would you just have to adjust the rings and springs? I have a Browning Auto 5 and would love the pay for a tax stamp to turn it into a SBS.

 

[Bill Akins]

Here's a couple of pics of my fore end off one of my Remy 11's. As you can see, there is about 1/4 inch of wood between the hole and the top of the fore end. Also as you can see, the line on the wood of the rim around the loading tube cap, that leaves less than 1/8th of an inch of wood above the cap. I don't think removing that 1/8th of an inch of wood would allow the rear of the Cutts comp body to clear either the wood nor the cap.

As far as cutting the barrel that short affecting the chambering of a shell, that wouldn't be a problem. The removal of weight off the barrel would aid it in recoiling, and recoiling back with more force. Even though the friction ring settings for using a cutts comp are NO friction ring, by removing that much barrel weight we may find using the friction ring with the cutts comp to be necessary to avoid the bolt slamming back with too much force, even with using the Cutts comp that normally uses no friction ring setting as seen in this drawing.

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