Accused of pointing a gun at someone

F

FUD

Moderator
Another trend that I started got me thinking about this. I asked if you would have a gun in hand when answering the door late a night to a stranger and the overwhelming response was YES. Now, what happens if the person honestly needed help, directions, etc.; and after seeing the gun, decides to report it to the police as "... I rang the bell and a crazy man pointed a gun at me ..."! Despite the fact that you did not point the firearm at him, it's your word against his and in most states, pointing a firearm at someone is considered aggravated assault and carries mandatory jail time. Additionallt, the person making "first contact" with the law is usually viewed as the victim. What happens next?
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
[BI asked if you would have a gun in hand when answering the door late a night to a stranger and the overwhelming response was YES. Now, what happens if the person honestly needed help, directions, etc.; and after seeing the gun, decides to report it to the police as "... I rang the bell and a crazy man pointed a gun at me ..."! [/B][/quote]

As long as you are in your home...you've no problem. If you have an overzealous prosecutor in your district, ensure he knows you will sue and charge him/her with malicious prosecution.
 
I posted a rather sarcastic reply to your first post because I do think the danger implied in answering your door bell at night is not very real.
I would not object if you knew where your arms are located and even if a person kept one handy in such a situation, as who knows what could theoretically happen.
I have not the slightest doubt that if you met an innocent stranger at the door with a firearm in hand that, whatever you care to think about yourself, the community around you would conclude that you are a bit of a nut case, hopefully, a harmless one best ignored. I do not think that many would think highly of you for such an action.
I had not the slightest thought about the legal implications from such an action, as I would not even consider it.
I would suggest that you do not do such things and forget about the legalities as well.
 
My Firearms Instructor told us in our CCW class, "If your ever SEEN with a firearm even in your own home, expect the cops to be called and some hysterical person to tell them about "The crazy man with a gun." More than one call has hit the 911 dispatch center here in Utah from some misplaced Californian seeing a firearm and spazzing.
"OH my God! there are three men with rifles,"
"Yes Maam, what are they doing?"
"They're getting out of a truck."
"Yes Maam"
"Oh my! they're walking into the field"
"Are they Dressed in Orange?"
"YES! are you looking for them?"
"No Maam"
"WHY NOT?!!!"
"It's called hunting maam and perfectly legal. Welcome to Utah."

"If it's called tourist season, why can't we hunt them."

"Welcome to Utah. Leave your Money, Go home."
 
I didn't reply to the first posting of this,But here are my thoughts and actions on the matter.
Someone rings my door bell say at 2am in the morning, I'm going to answer with my bath robe on with either my gun in the pocket with hand on, or in my hand behind my back.
I'm not going to show anyone anything until I have to or feel the need. So I'm not going to worry to much about that. But what I'm really going to want to know is why the he** they are ringing my doorbell at 2am.
Hope this helps :)

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
Meiji_man:

"If it's called tourist season, why can't we hunt them."

"Welcome to Utah. Leave your Money, Go home."

Meiji_man, :D !!

Every July, I'm a tourist in Utah for a least a few days, and often carry openly. I've never gotten a second look from the locals, but the tourists are in shock. I've had Europeans videotape me as I mount my bike and take off. Californians give me plenty of "personal space." And, of course, other bikers are very interested in whether that mode of carry is legal.

Anyway, back on thread. I wouldn't answer the door late at night without being armed with something. Years back I answered the door at my apartment at 3 am, and got the sh*t beat out of me by two guys. One of them, it turned out, was trying to score points with an ex-girlfriend of mine. Had I been able to afford a gun back then, I could have at least shot them in the legs, since I was down on the floor with them kicking me.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
Just because you go to the door doesn't mean you have to open it. Hopefully you have either a peep hole or a chain on the door. Don't forget you can always make the call for them. I remember once when a man stopped at my mother's house during the middle of the day and said he, "needed to use the restroom and could he come in"? Needless to say she had the good sense to tell him to get in car and get down the road.

Strange isn't it there are service stations and fast food joints less than two miles away and this joker stops by and wants to use the bath room. If I'd been home and heard him I'd had liked to come out with my riot model 12 and told him to take a leak by the wood pile. But, I most likely would have just stood there with my rifle or pistol while he left. Guess I could have told him we'd been having a lot of thefts lately and there was an escaped prisoner on the loose.

Remember, you have to look out for number 1. The government is going to look out for number 2 to make sure his rights weren't violated.
 
In Massachusetts, if you hold your handgun, it can be considered assault with a deadly weapon. (YES, this means you are never allowed to 'scare' them away with a gun, they can and probably will charge you.) Whether or not this applies to you in your home, is something i wouldn't bet against.

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~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
 
Roy Bean is right. There is no reason to open the door to a stranger and every reason not to. If they won't take no for an answer, or whine or plead or give you some reason why you must absolutely open the door without delay, DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR. Cowards travel in packs and hide out of sight. Call the police without delay.

No more worries about seeing your little friend unless you mean for it to be seen.
 
Herodotus,
Keep living in your fantasy world, bud. There are people assaulted at their front doors in the LA OC metroplex on a weekly, if not nightly basis. Many of them are cases of mistaken identity. I *always* answer the door armed if it is after dark and I am not expecting anyone over.

Now I do NOT flash a gun in someones face. Instead, I look through the peephole, and if it looks like they are not particularly threatening, I put my right hand behind my back holding the pistol, sometimes thrust into my waitband, and I open the door with my left foot pressed against it to delay a forceful entry. If their business is legit, then I leave my pistol behind my waistband and they dont ever know its there.

I have NO compunctions about answering the door with police there like that. I have done it on several occasions. It doesnt really matter, but we have had threatening phone calls and shots fired out side in a park that we live near on several occasions.

I do not consider myself paranoid, and I dont believe in brandishing a weapon unless I feel unduly threatened, but I would not hesitate to point a gun at someone who was behaving in a threatening manner at my front door with full knowledge that if they decided to assault me I would shoot them in legal self defense.

And yes, I do live in California.

J.T.

As usual, FWIW, IMHO, YMMV, and all that....



[This message has been edited by J.T.King (edited July 03, 2000).]
 
OK, I'll bite..

If someone comes to my door at some oddball hour of the night had a problem with me having a sidearm with me, can goto the next damn house and wake them up.

And IF LEO showed up banging on the door grilling my arse for my behavour, in my own home, after being awaken in the middle of the night. The first question I would probably have for the LEO is, "have you checked the person for intox yet"? Because very few people are going to be clamoring around in the wee hours, unless they've wrecked their car, or had car trouble.

Sorry, I used to hit the bars too, long time ago. I know some of the crap that can happen to you. I was extremely lucky to have not gotten killed, or worse, hurt someone else in my escapades.

Heck, I've been called to work to repair railroad crossing equiptment(old job), and have had drunks threaten to kick my a$$ because they were stopped at the crossing while I fixed it.
One guy even went so far as to call the cops to report me telling him to shove off. Yep, no joke. He was still there trying to get me to fight with him when they showed up. So, now I had to fix the lightning damaged equiptment, then goto the cop shop, and file a report against him for intox on railroad property, etc. I didn't file personal charges against him, even though he's taken a couple shots at me. He was drunk, I wasn't, not a fair fight. I just kept ducking him till the LEO showed.
I figured he was having enough difficulties here, why kick him when he is down?

Some compassion can go along way. But minbe drops when someone comesd to my door, and doesn't like the picture, and tries to do me in. That's when the gloves come off.


Blueyedog, you said this more eloquently than I, but is exactly what I meant to say :) :)

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
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"Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, and destroy their rugged- ness.
Get control of all means of publicity, and thereby get the peoples' mind off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities.
Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance."

Vladimir Ilich Lenin, former leader of USSR
 
Herodotus, either you live next to the local cop shop, or, you are a known LEO, or you are immortal, or you are an attorney.
I hate to be trite, but the old saw," better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" applys here.

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jones
"permits, we don't need no stinking permits!"
 
I don't understand the big problem here. Many of us carry concealed firearms on a daily basis. You answer the door cautiously ... simply with awareness. Use your good judgement as to whether to open the door. If you do open the door, your firearm is concealed, but readily accessible.

I agree, you don't open the door while holding a shotgun, or a pistol in your hand. That's not only smart, from my perspective, it is simply courtesy. If I've opened the door, I've evidently decided this isn't Mongo come to visit. ;)

Having said all this, it would be the very rare exception for me to open my door to a stranger at an odd hour of night. That's why I have a peephole and an intercom system.

Regards from AZ
 
Okay, here's the rub.

The person at the door may be a police officer. Then again, they may be someone claiming to be a police officer. In the one case, you would not wish to open the door with an exposed firearm. In the other, you would wish to have a firearm in hand. You can have both with a simple technique.

When the knock comes at the door, simply place your handgun in your strong hand with a magazine (Guns and Ammo will do) held with your thumb blocking the view of the firearm. Try this in a mirror and you will see that even though you are fully prepared for battle if need be, anyone seeing you would not know it. They think you have simply been reading a magazine. You can even bring the firearm to bear without revealing it. This gives you the first shot advantage.

I have used this technique for years and it is an excellent technique for staving off bad guys while causing no affrontry or fear to legitimate visitors.

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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.


[This message has been edited by jimpeel (edited July 04, 2000).]
 
Bob Willis of Calibre Press Street Survival
Seminars tells the story of his wife answering the door and a home attack begining by Vietnamese gang bangers.The result of which was a Starsky and Hutch type chase and shootem up. So yes there is a reason to be armed when answering the door. During a particularly "hot" period in my LE career I have answered the door with everything from a Mossberg 590 to DPMS 16in
FlatTop AR 15.

I have went hunting on the homestead at night when my mobile intrusion alarms (Dawgs)
go off. In alabama on my own property As long as I do not over react to the situation I'm good to go. It's all a matter of the how's and why's.

[This message has been edited by WGB38 (edited July 04, 2000).]

For Gammar and spelling.

[This message has been edited by WGB38 (edited July 04, 2000).]
 
My land. My house. My loved ones.
Within Texas law, MY law.

Unless I know the person, I answer the door with a gov't model in my right hand. Nobody can see it, it's behind the door and the door is blocked by my foot.

If it's an "all clear" situation, I say, "Just a sec, okay?", close the door and conceal the handgun appropriately.

Nobody sees. Nobody knows. Again:
My land. My house. My loved ones.
Within Texas law, MY law.

On your land or your house with your loved ones, within appropriate laws, it's your law.

And, yes, I will fight for our Right to differ.


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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited July 04, 2000).]
 
I almost always answer the door after dark with gun in hand or in waistband at the small of my back. I usually answer the door any time with a weapon, as what got me back into handguns was an incident about 2.5 years ago when a couple of drugged-up hispanics tried to push their way into my house in the middle of the afternoon. They had pulled up in front of my house and opened the hood and walked up to the door and rang the bell. I was working out of my house at the time, my office faces the street, and I though it odd that they didn't even bother to look under the hood. they just popped it and walked up to the door. I oopened the door just enough to hear what they wanted, which was to come in and use the phone. Since I was alone and there were two of them, I said I couldn't let them in, but would be happy to call the Mobil station a 1/2 mile away. They looked like hell (unkempt & unshaven, rheumy/glassy eyes, slurred speach) and the guy insisted that they had to come in. I said no, and said I can call teh gas station, or call teh cops, but they couldn't come in. The guy says "we got to use the PHONE" and tried to push the door in (bad choice - I'm 6'3" 260#), so I slammed it hard on his arm, which he jerked back and then I slammed the door shut, threw the dead bolt and yelled that I was calling the cops, and guess what - their car started right up and they left. unfortuanately, ididn't get teh license number, so I didn't bother the cops (there's no shortage of thirty-something hispanics driving clapped out Toyotas in N. VA) I went out and bought a SIG 228 that weekend. But I digress.

At any rate, I use the peep hole and can see the driveway, so if I know who's out there the gun stays out of sight. My friends know me, aren't offended if they see me put the gun away and tease me about it sometimes, but so what. If it's some proseletizer (sp?) or solicitor, it tends to keep the conversation short and they accept the first "no thank you, not interested" much better than when I used to answer unarmed. I don't wave the gun around or point it at anyone, but OTOH, I really don't care if someone sees a gun on me in my own house. After all, my family's safety is my responsibility.
M2
 
If you choose to answer your door armed, fine.

Keep it concealed, though. It is prudent, courteous, and at times advantageous.

(Obviously there are exceptions to every rule- but try not to live by them.)
 
If a Grizzly sow and her cubs approach my door and ask to use the phone I sure as hell am gonna be armed. I don't care what she thinks. She'll be right in my sights the whole time she dials and until she and her young leave my kitchen.
 
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