I have two Remington 30 cal 700s that I like very much. I've worked up best loads and spent a lot of fun time shooting for accuracy, and one in sporter competition, but never quite satisfied. Glass bedding makes them very consistent, but group averages are in the 1.3 MOA range. My question is whether it is usually worth it to go through the "accurizing" steps of truing, lapping, cryoing, and the like with a factory sporter barrel, or just start with rebarelling, which would do all of the above. Same question applies to a 788 in 22-250. Thank you.
Accurizing remington bolt rifles
- Thread starter cptmclark
- Start date
I'd have the muzzle touched up before I'd try anything else. 1.3" group is terrible for a Remington factory barrel. Using factory ammo, I've gotten nickel size groups with on the 700 BDL 30-06 barrel.
BTW, are your Remingtons scoped or are you using Irons? If you're using iron sights, do you normally get 1.3" groups with other guns too?
BTW, are your Remingtons scoped or are you using Irons? If you're using iron sights, do you normally get 1.3" groups with other guns too?
mikikanazawa
New member
I would also slug the barrel, and use bullets .001" OD over the barrel's ID. (Most people like to use the ID from the middle of the barrel, as the bore gets smaller from chamber to muzzle.)
Also make sure the bullets you're using are concentric, both externally or internally. Not everyone has the $$$$ to blow on the gear needed to check internal concentricity, but the rule of thumb is to use good quality bullets.
When measuring the OAL of the finished cartridge, most people measure from base of case to point of bullet. The better way is to measure from base of case to the spot on the bullet that's closest to the rifling. There's a word for this but I can't remember it offhand. Dillon has a tool for this, and it's cheap.
Also make sure the bullets you're using are concentric, both externally or internally. Not everyone has the $$$$ to blow on the gear needed to check internal concentricity, but the rule of thumb is to use good quality bullets.
When measuring the OAL of the finished cartridge, most people measure from base of case to point of bullet. The better way is to measure from base of case to the spot on the bullet that's closest to the rifling. There's a word for this but I can't remember it offhand. Dillon has a tool for this, and it's cheap.
Thanks
Thanks guys. In answer to one, the rifles have good quality 3-9 scopes. If this wasn't frustrating enough, I have a Win 88 308 that's not supposed to be too accurate, and it shoots minute of angle all day. My 788 I asked about in another post does 5/8 with the right loads, and it wasn't supposed to be so hot either. Now those 700s will turn in a lot of sub inch groups, but to me the largest groups I get with a load is what I record. Interestingly, in both, they keep doing better as the pressure rises to the limit.
Thanks guys. In answer to one, the rifles have good quality 3-9 scopes. If this wasn't frustrating enough, I have a Win 88 308 that's not supposed to be too accurate, and it shoots minute of angle all day. My 788 I asked about in another post does 5/8 with the right loads, and it wasn't supposed to be so hot either. Now those 700s will turn in a lot of sub inch groups, but to me the largest groups I get with a load is what I record. Interestingly, in both, they keep doing better as the pressure rises to the limit.
Danindetroit
New member
Mik is it "ogive"? 
Have you checked the headspace on those questionable rifles? Also, as mentioned above, the crown may be damaged. You can pull some cotton away from the tip of a cotton swab so it's thin and light, but still attached to the swab, and pass it in and out of the muzzle. If it snags, you've found some damage. Also, lapping the bolt lugs may help, but I would check the headspace before doing anything else.
mikikanazawa
New member
Danindetroit: Yes!!! You are correct!
I went to m-w.com and looked up the literal definition of "ogive" and it says "a pointed arch."
I went to m-w.com and looked up the literal definition of "ogive" and it says "a pointed arch."
Danindetroit
New member
I hope this isn't stupid, but how is the trigger?
DAVID NANCARROW
New member
cptmclark,
After the glass bedding, is the barrel free floated? If not, you might try it. If it is, you might try a pressure pad about an inch or so from the end of the forestock. Also, try seating the bullet about .030" off the lands. In addition you might try a heavier bullet than what you are experimenting with.
I bought an M700/270 Win off a friend I have hunted with for years, and he gave up after bedding the action to the stock. It worked for him for about a year, then it went back to throwing irregular groups. It would not group with 130 grain bullets worth a darn, and that being the 270's standard setup, I tossed the factory stock and bought a Bell&Carlson to replace it. For some reason, the standard BDL stock was warping on him, even though he tried to seal it after the bedding.
With no adjustments, it grouped Hornady Custom ammo in 140 grain without issue. I handloaded some Hornady 130 grain BTSP's with H4831SC, and when I checked the oal with a stony point OAL chamber gauge, I found that seating the round to the length of the magazine was just about perfect. It shoots just fine now, with 3 shot groups at about 3/4ths of an inch from the 130 grain loads. The 140 grain groups slightly tighter, but nothing which is going to make a huge difference in the hunting field.
Changing the stock out for something inert was a good thing, but measuring the OAL really made the difference. This rifle was not happy until I pushed the overall length out nearly 3/16ths of an inch with the 130 grain bullets. The stock wasn't exactly cheap at $140, but a lot cheaper than a barrel by far as I would have had to take it to a smitty to have it fitted.
After the glass bedding, is the barrel free floated? If not, you might try it. If it is, you might try a pressure pad about an inch or so from the end of the forestock. Also, try seating the bullet about .030" off the lands. In addition you might try a heavier bullet than what you are experimenting with.
I bought an M700/270 Win off a friend I have hunted with for years, and he gave up after bedding the action to the stock. It worked for him for about a year, then it went back to throwing irregular groups. It would not group with 130 grain bullets worth a darn, and that being the 270's standard setup, I tossed the factory stock and bought a Bell&Carlson to replace it. For some reason, the standard BDL stock was warping on him, even though he tried to seal it after the bedding.
With no adjustments, it grouped Hornady Custom ammo in 140 grain without issue. I handloaded some Hornady 130 grain BTSP's with H4831SC, and when I checked the oal with a stony point OAL chamber gauge, I found that seating the round to the length of the magazine was just about perfect. It shoots just fine now, with 3 shot groups at about 3/4ths of an inch from the 130 grain loads. The 140 grain groups slightly tighter, but nothing which is going to make a huge difference in the hunting field.
Changing the stock out for something inert was a good thing, but measuring the OAL really made the difference. This rifle was not happy until I pushed the overall length out nearly 3/16ths of an inch with the 130 grain bullets. The stock wasn't exactly cheap at $140, but a lot cheaper than a barrel by far as I would have had to take it to a smitty to have it fitted.
Harry Bonar
New member
re-700 accuracy
Dear Sir:
Most accuracy problems are "bedding" related, yet I feel you should go to a good smithy and crown that bbl with a "target/recessed crown."
The only area on that 700 that I'd bed would be recoil lug area, period. I have never seen a rifle that would deliver guilt edge accuracy with a fully bedded barrel; definately float that bbl! When you float it don't use the "dollar bill" approach, get a thick cardboard piece and see that it clears all along the bbl. back to action; also use your dremel tool on the bedding that has squeezed up under the bbl at that point.
A new bbl. might be overkill. My experience in action/detailing/bbl, fitting shows that a "crooked bbl" will sometime be your best shooting bbl. and I've found dozzens of them on factory rifles, also with only one lug touching the reciever recess.(Sako 22-250 shot 1/2" group at 200 yards, yet when I rebarreled it for my sniper buddy and checked that Sako bbl, boy, the runout was terrible - yet it shot) Take your time - find a good smithy.
Harry
Dear Sir:
Most accuracy problems are "bedding" related, yet I feel you should go to a good smithy and crown that bbl with a "target/recessed crown."
The only area on that 700 that I'd bed would be recoil lug area, period. I have never seen a rifle that would deliver guilt edge accuracy with a fully bedded barrel; definately float that bbl! When you float it don't use the "dollar bill" approach, get a thick cardboard piece and see that it clears all along the bbl. back to action; also use your dremel tool on the bedding that has squeezed up under the bbl at that point.
A new bbl. might be overkill. My experience in action/detailing/bbl, fitting shows that a "crooked bbl" will sometime be your best shooting bbl. and I've found dozzens of them on factory rifles, also with only one lug touching the reciever recess.(Sako 22-250 shot 1/2" group at 200 yards, yet when I rebarreled it for my sniper buddy and checked that Sako bbl, boy, the runout was terrible - yet it shot) Take your time - find a good smithy.
Harry
ishootskeet
Inactive
Hi,
You might find reading this link worthwhile. It's about a guy trying to accurize two rifles, one a Remington 700, without breaking his bank account or his marriage.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm
You might find reading this link worthwhile. It's about a guy trying to accurize two rifles, one a Remington 700, without breaking his bank account or his marriage.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm