Accuracy Testing/Shooting Groups

J

jdscholer

New member
When testing a new handgun or new hand-loads, I like to shoot a 25 yard group from a rest to see how things are doing.

It would be nice to take as much human error out of the equation as possible, but I don't have a Ransom Rest. My method of rest is usually with wrists and hands bedded on sandbags, with the handgun held with my two handed grip. I always try to set up so that the sun isn't shining from the side, as I have found that that it can affect the windage of my group.(maybe just my eyes)

My standard test gun is my 686, 6" barrel, with open sights. My best groups have been 1", but more often 2 or 3 inches. (six shots)

I'd like to know from anyone else, how you like to create your rest when grouping your guns. --support the barrel, etc. I sometimes feel that I could do better. jd
 
I always try to set up so that the sun isn't shining from the side, as I have found that that it can affect the windage of my group.(maybe just my eyes)
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It's not your eyes. It happens to everyone. It happens with optical sights, too.

The big problem with putting sandbags under the front of a revolver is setting the bags on fire with hot loads. I made sandbags out of old blue jean legs sewed shut and they will catch on fire with H110 powder.

Somebody out there makes a plastic pistol rest designed to support the barrel and butt of a revolver. Maybe it is Millett? That seems to work pretty well.

After I've gotten a load zeroed I don't use a bench much. I like sitting down on the ground and leaning back against something solid. Then I draw up my knees and rest my forearms between my knees. That is the kind of position you can use in the field and it is almost as steady as a bench.

ETA that if you are shooting as well as you say then I think you should start increasing the range.
 
I'd like to know from anyone else, how you like to create your rest when grouping your guns. --support the barrel, etc. I sometimes feel that I could do better.
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I pick the thing up, take a Weaver stance, and fire it - slow fire at first, then rapid fire. I probably won't have a chance of using a rest in a gun fight situation, so I don't use one. It's how accurate I am with the gun in a fighting hold that matters.

Now, that's not do discount the "grouping from a rest" people. If that's what works for you - go for it.
 
JD,
I made my own pistol rest and have used it with scoped pistols at ranges from 50 yds to 100 yds with excellent results. Dimensions can be adjusted to suit your needs/situation:

Rest is L shaped and made from 1x4 wood. Bottom is about 14" long, and upright is 6 1/2" high. Attach upright firmly at one end of bottom. I hinged mine so it can be lowered when not in use. Cut a large V or U in upright, 2" wide by 3 1/2" deep. Fold a piece of heavy cloth (I used part of bag that shot comes in for loading shotgun shells) several times, fold down into V and nail to top ears of upright. The cloth MUST NOT touch the bottom of V slot. Put a softly filled/padded bag on bottom of rest. Hold the gun in both hands with your hands resting on the pad and barrel resting in bottom of cloth hanger suspended in V slot. This is REALLY steady in use! Have been using my rest for 10 years with only minor blackening from powder; NO flames or burning yet.
 
LB, your contraption sounds like what I'm looking for. Simple, cheap, and effective. At least more effective than my hand hold.

I made sandbags out of old blue jean legs sewed shut and they will catch on fire with H110 powder.
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I thought I was the only one who did this. I mentioned it in another thread and they made fun of me.:confused:

I know that not everybody is interested in shooting groups, but it's about the only way of judging different loads against each other; or at least the quickest. When I try two different powder loads, and one shoots 6", and the other does 2", I know which one I want to go home and load 500 of. Not quite so obvious from an off-hand "Weaver Stance". jd
 
Here is the Millett rest:

opticsplanet_2036_124484620


http://www.opticsplanet.net/millet-benchmaster-shooting-fdfebb.html

It sounds like the rest LHB1 might look a little like this. The bump on the left side of the pic is for the bottom of the pistol grip and it slides back and forth to accommodate different sized handguns and different barrel lengths.


I thought I was the only one who did this. I mentioned it in another thread and they made fun of me.
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I'll do anything to save money if the end result does what I need it to. I've got some made out of those old shot bags that someone mentioned up there. I've got one that I filled with Styrofoam packing peanuts to use in a rifle class I took. It weighs a few ounces and I can stick it in my pack and if I have a need to shoot from prone I can slip it out and I'm set.

I don't shoot much from the bench but there are uses for it and I agree with yours.
 
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I appreciate your feedback, and between your picture and LB's idea, I'm already getting ideas for putting my own twist on one of these.

I just finished building a take-anywhere shooting bench that will probably be the most solid shooting platform I've ever had. I designed it for rifle, but this pistol rest will work fine on it. These days, low budget accessories are part of my life. jd
 
I pick the thing up, take a Weaver stance, and fire it - slow fire at first, then rapid fire.
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Works great for practicing your shooting technique, but how does this help to determine the accuracy of a firearm or specific load? Reminds me of the Old Timers I hunted with when I was a kid. Shoot off hand at 25 yards, if they hit the paper plate they were off to the woods. Never much cared for all that tracking of wounded deer.
 
Never much cared for all that tracking of wounded deer.
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First, I don't hunt.

Works great for practicing your shooting technique, but how does this help to determine the accuracy of a firearm or specific load?
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Second, I don't reload, so I accept factory ammo. I try different brands and decide what's best in my gun and in my hand. The gun is the gun - the accuracy of it is the same, regardless of the ammo used. The final accuracy is more a function of my shooting skill, not the ammo or gun. You are correct, THAT'S what I'm practicing. If a certain brand of ammo shoots high or low, I learn to compensate for that when aiming and/or adjust my sights accordingly. Once I pick a certain ammo for a certain gun, I don't change unless there's a compelling reason. Then I practice with that ammo until I'm accurate again.

Shooting from a rest is a good way to compare ammo. For me, it doesn't do much for my skills in a "social situation". I practice reality.
 
Shoot em like your gonna use em

I'm with Keltyke on this one.

You sight in like you're gonna shoot. Guns shoot differant from a rest then they do off hand. Same with differant positions. It works with pistols just like it does with rifles. You dont see it so much on pistols cause you are so much closer.

It small bore at 50 feet, you're gonna have a differant zero standing, kneeling, and setting. In high power you're gonna have differant zeros slow fire and rapid fire. In bullseye pistol, you're gonna have differant zeros between Slow Fire and Rapid & Timed fire.

At hunting you're gonna have differant zeros from a bench and off hand or leaning against a tree.

Shoot them like you're gonna use 'em.
 
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337553 -- this guy welded up his own handgun rest that I think looks pretty good (well, it won't win any beauty contests, but it looks pretty darn solid).


kraigwy said:
You sight in like you're gonna shoot. Guns shoot differant from a rest then they do off hand. Same with differant positions. It works with pistols just like it does with rifles. You dont see it so much on pistols cause you are so much closer.

It small bore at 50 feet, you're gonna have a differant zero standing, kneeling, and setting. In high power you're gonna have differant zeros slow fire and rapid fire. In bullseye pistol, you're gonna have differant zeros between Slow Fire and Rapid & Timed fire.
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+1 -- I've noticed this when zeroing my Bullseye guns--they have one zero when shooting off the bench, quite another when standing, two-handed, and a third when standing, one-handed (bullseye) style (and seemingly another if I switch from right to left-hands). But it is good to know exactly what your gun and ammo and sights are capable of without the additional variables of the human operator.
 
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I've never had much success shooting a pistol with my hands or wrists rested on anything. I usually rest my forearms on my range bag.

John
 
1st off, I agree with those saying the gun won't shoot the same with a natural hold vers a rest or bags, but I've also found the rest to be handy when developing loads, & found that accurate loads off the rest, still translate to accurate loads off hand...

I have a rest, but the guns don't clamp tight in the rest like a Ransom, but it is elevation adjustable
 
The gun is the gun - the accuracy of it is the same, regardless of the ammo used. The final accuracy is more a function of my shooting skill, not the ammo or gun.
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Interesting. So, are you saying that regardless of the ammo used in your firearms your accuracy will always be the same? You can actually shoot the same size groups with different bullet weights and different brands of ammo regardless of bullet design, weight or makeup? I would truly like to hear more as to how you do this.
 
accuracy

You sight in like you're gonna shoot.
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To each his own of course, but I like to practice like I'm gonna shoot. Sighting in is something else. I want to be sure that my gun likes the particular ammo that I'm using. I want to be sure that the gun is shooting that ammo where the sights are pointed.
Once that is done, then I'm ready for practice. If the shots aren't going where they should, I know that it's me, not the gun.
Pete
 
My original post had more to do with accuracy testing and group size than off-hand shooting technique.

I am a hand-loader, and the group size of my reloads is very important to me, as is the inherent accuracy of the handgun I'm shooting. I'll always choose one that groups 2" over one that groups 6".


My handguns aren't only for self defense. I use all of them a lot more for plinking and hunting small game and varmints. It's kind of hard to hit a 4" ground squirrel at 50 yds. with a gun/load that groups 6" at 25 yds.

We've got no argument here, we're just talking about two different things.:) jd:)
 
I was at the range yesterday bench-resting my two S&W 617s to see what ammo they liked (my suspicions were confirmed: my 617-4 likes Federal #750, my 617-6 likes CCI Standard Velocity). I started off resting my arms/wrists on my range bag and holding onto the free-floating guns, but by the end I had the barrel rested on the bag and the butt of the grip propped up, so all I had to do was to make sure the sights were lined up while squeezing off the round. Of course I can get away with this because .22LR probably won't start any fires with the escaping gases...

So my bench rest consisted of the barrel resting on the bag, and the butt propped up. Ideally, I'd like a machine rest or a Ransom Rest, but I don't quite have access to that equipment.
 
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