Accuracy issues with new pistol

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P71pilot

New member
I recently sold off a revolver to fund a ccw gun purchase. I handled every poly frame automatic at my local range/gunshop and took home with me a Walther ppq m2 .40 with a 4 inch barrel. Now keep in mind this is my third ever striker fired pistol, 6th pistol ever owned. Right now only have 2 handguns, this ppq and a Springfield loaded model 1911 .45

I wanted a 4 +/- inch polymer frame .40 caliber pistol to conceal carry as my 1911 is rather heavy and only holds 8 rounds. I am a smaller guy and the weight savings alone will go a long ways in the long run. So far I have shot about 200rds through the PPQ, all 180gr fmj loads (blazer brass and sellier & bellot) and I am not happy with the accuracy I am getting so far. I have been primarily shooting at 10yds, and at that distance with my PPQ (small backstrap installed), I manage no better than a 5" group with 10 shots, sometimes worse. When I switch over to my 1911 I consistently shoot 4"-1" groups for 10 shots (depending on time taken between shots and concentration/trigger pull/grip).

I wear a large size glove, have slightly small hands but are extremely beefy. I recently discovered that I shoot my 1911 better when I have the thicker factory wood grips installed instead of the slimmer magpul moe grips I bought, so the magpul grips are sitting in their box. I think since my hands are short and meaty the larger surface area helps me to get a better grip. My 1911 also has front strap checkering and rear mainspring housing checkering so when I grip it and grip it hard it absolutely does not slip or torque in my grip. With the Walther, the factory stippling is not very grippy, and there isnt much of it there on the grip, combined with the lighter weight and higher chamber pressure, the Walther as much more recoil and muzzle flip than my 39oz 1911.

Since I will be carrying this Walther and have a IWB holster ordered, I have a few ideas I am going to try

1- try shooting with the medium size backstrap installed, this may make me shoot better as the larger grips on my 1911 allows me to shoot better.
2-install a set of Talon grips. The rubberized stippling will most definitely improve grip, I just have to decide if I like the medium or small backstrap better because once installed the Talon grips are either on for good or ruined if taken off.
3-replace stock sights. The factory plastic 3white dot sights don't work well for me. The front sight is much too small for the notch in the rear, there is a lot of room on the sides of the front sight and it allows for more error in sight picture

So what do you think? Last thing to try are the sights as I don't want to spend $100 plus dollars if I don't need to. Next time I go shooting I will see if my groups improve any with the medium backstrap installed, in the hand, it does seem like i may be able to better grip the weapon.
 
Sounds like you just need to practice more with the striker fired trigger. They can be harder to use for someone that may be used to the single action 1911 trigger. There's no doubt about Walthers being very accurate, so I would say just spend a lot of time practicing and especially dry firing. When dry firing, watch your front sight closely. You may be jerking the trigger without even realizing it
 
Have you shot .40 S&W before? I ask this because the first time I shot it after I bought an all-metal .40 cal pistol, my accuracy with it was terrible, and I had shot a lot of 9mm Luger and .45 ACP, as well as 38 Special and .357 Magnum.

The recoil characteristics of the .40 S&W are described differently by different folks but many perceive it to be '"sharp" or "snappy" or at least less pleasant than 9mm or .45 ACP. I found that as I shot the caliber more, the recoil characteristics became ingrained in my subconscious to the point where they were no longer a distraction and my accuracy improved dramatically.

I think grip is especially important with .40 S&W. If you feel like the pistol is levering in your hand during recoil, I would definitely try the Talon grip.

I have heard some (including Massad Ayoob) claim that the .40 S&W round is inherently less accurate than the other common center-fire handgun cartridges. I don't know if that is true, but if it is it doesn't concern me because the round has plenty of combat accuracy at reasonable SD ranges.

I have not shot a Walther PPQ as yet, but it seems to have a reputation for having a trigger action that is one of the best for a striker-fired action pistol. Still, I don't think any striker-fired is going to have as nice a trigger as a good model 1911 so getting used to the trigger may result in an improvement in accuracy.

I can't see that the sights would make a big difference in slow fire accuracy as long as they are properly aligned. Perhaps different sights would allow you to acquire an accurate sight picture more quickly for rapid fire, but I would not swap sights until you had shot the pistol a good deal more.
 
It may not be you, it may not be the gun.

Not everyone is built the same, not every gun is the same.

For example I have a S&W 40 cal pistol I really like, its "seems" to fit my hand, but I can't hit poop with it. Its not the gun, I can take a good solid rest and the gun shoots great, but when I stand on my hind legs I can hit anything.

I wrote it off as my being a revolver shooter. The about a month ago I bought a little Ruger LC9s. Its lighter and should kick more then the Smith. Barely fits in my hands, yet I can shoot it.

When I bought it my wife was with me and bought me a 1884 Trapdoor Springfield. When trying out the Trapdoor I had an 8 in steel plate set up at 50 yards and decided to try the little Ruger. I hit the 8 in. plate 4 out of 7 rounds. I could have never done that with my S&W pistol, nor with my carry 642. I don't think its the sights, both the Smith and the Ruger have the same 3 dot sights (though the Ruger's is smaller).

It's just some people can shoot some guns when they cant shoot others.

Maybe try a few different guns and see what happens. You might just come up with the perfect fit.
 
I sucked with an xdm due to the miles long trigger pull coming from a short crisp sa hammer gun.


Do the dummy rounds randomly loaded and ensure you aren't jerking the gun around on the last mile of trigger travel (I was). Then practice, reload, repeat.
 
Couple of years ago, I bought a Beretta PX4 (full size, type f). At first, I really just flat couldn't shoot it well, but got better. Then the BiL brought over his 40 caliber Glock, and man o man, I could really shoot that pistol. First time I had shot a Glock and I was impressed (with gun and with my shooting). Decided to stay with the Beretta, and over time I got quite good with it. I suppose that some pistols just fit some people better than others. Just recently the oldest granddaughter and one of her buds came to visit. Instantly they both shot the Beretta like they'd been practicing for years.

I'm quite sure that your shooting of that pistol will get better with time, even if it isn't the perfect fit for you.
 
Get a compact 1911 chambered in 9 Luger. If you need greater capacity, look into a CZ P-07. The P-07 comes chambered in either 9 Luger or .40 S&W, but 9 Luger is effective in terms of terminal ballistics, produces substantially less recoil (thus, better precision), and provides greater capacity. The P-07 has modular backstraps, a generous triggerguard for a gloved hand, and can be switched between decocker and safety lock per shooter preference. It is a very accurate compact, and has a good hammer-firing trigger system. And, the integral ploymer grips are rather aggressively textured.
 
So far I have shot about 200rds through the PPQ, all 180gr fmj loads (blazer brass and sellier & bellot) and I am not happy with the accuracy I am getting so far. I have been primarily shooting at 10yds, and at that distance with my PPQ (small backstrap installed), I manage no better than a 5" group with 10 shots, sometimes worse. When I switch over to my 1911 I consistently shoot 4"-1"(?) groups for 10 shots (depending on time taken between shots and concentration/trigger pull/grip).
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You shouldn't be so hasty to pass judgement on the accuracy of your PPQ based on the first 200 rounds of just 2 types of FMJ factory ammo. You definitely need to get more dry and live fire practice with the gun, and you need some structured live fire practice with known good JHP defensive ammo such as 180 gr. Hornady American Gunner ammo, that XTP bullet is known for its inherent accuracy. Keep at it & keep us posted.
 
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I like to take every gun I own, set up the sandbags on the bench and shoot it with every bit of support I can get. Then I know what the gun is capable of shooting. That gives me confidence in the gun and shames me when I shoot it poorly. Maybe I should say 'it spurs me to try to shoot better.'

If it won't group well off supports then you've got a problem with the gun.
 
I too carry a 1911 and shoot great with it but lousy with the PPQ when I first bought it for my wife. It was the change of recoil and trigger that through me off. But once I got used to it I now love it and I never cared for polymer guns. My wife installed a rubber grip that slips over the grips and it really cushions recoil and makes it more comfortable to shoot. You could consider that too.
 
Have you shot the gun off of a rest or bags to baseline inherent accuracy?

Have others fired the gun at similar distances?

Are you needing something beyond "minute of man" results, or is this a personal game you are playing with yourself?

You might try to bring the target in closer, so you can get a good feel for what the sight picture should be. The PPQ favors the European sight picture, rather than the 6 o'clock hold most favor in this country. It makes a difference.

The PPQ is a great weapon, I have 9 and 40 flavors. Don't assume what works for one pistol is going to completely map over to the PPQ.
 
Trying to compare a full sized 1911 to any Stryker fired gun is tough....primarily because of the design of a 1911 trigger vs any trigger suspended from a pin/ a 1911 moves straight back and forth in frame .....vs moving thru an arc...

It comes down to adjusting to all the little things --- weight, sight plane length, checkering on front strap, width, etc.....it isn't whether you like the walther -- it's whether it fits your hands or not.....and all that little stuff is a big deal....

I just bought a pair of 627 revolvers -- last week / and i'm already on my 3rd set of grips trying to get them to feel just right...../ it takes time....and maybe the Walther works for you or it doesn't....maybe it's the .40 caliber vs a 9mm ....or a 1911 in 9mm,,,,
 
Obviously the gun isn't the problem, I really like this Walther and am going to practice and practice with it. Will dry fire lots and try different brands and weights of ammo. This is actually only the 3rd .40 I've ever fired (technically 4th if you count my old glock 20). Before this I had an M&P40 and was probably even less accurate with it, but its trigger was much worse. I think I need to work on trigger control, its ssssssso much different than my beloved 1911. I have before shot a 2" 5 shot group standing two hands at 20yds with my 1911. When i first got it actually. The trigger is much different and the grip is much more slippery on this fine german piece of plastic. I would ultimately like to shoot this walther as well as i shoot my 1911, i chose .40 over 9mm because id i ever had to use my ppq to shoot a deer or mt. Lion or black bear i would rather have the slight increase in power over the slightly higher capacity and shootability of the 9mm. I will practice as often as possible with this new gun. Its the best striker poly gun ive ever experienced. I did shoot a gen3 glock 17 rrrreally well one time, maybe as good or better than my 1911
 
Dry fire is useful for sure, but the human body isn't stupid. You could have a flinch in live fire that you don't see in dry fire. My advice would be to get some snap caps and mix them in with your ammo while loading mags, then jumble the mags. You should have shots that click instead of bang and surprise you. It can help spot problems in technique. After shooting a magazine do some dry fire too to further emphasize the trigger control.
 
Thank you all for your tips and suggestions. I am only 22 and have a long way to go for experience and wisdom. I will not give up on this Walther. I think I'll order a set of Talon grips just so I have em handy when ready to install
 
Shot about 50rds through the Walther today, as well as about 60 through my 1911. I shot today with the medium sized backstrap installed; my accuracy was worse and all shots were off to the right. So I will put the small backstrap back on and continue to practice with it. I also ordered a rubber Talon grip today and will install it when it arrives. I need to quit shooting my 1911 and Walther in the same session, as this will not build my accuracy with the Walther I'd I cannot get accustomed to the grip, trigger, and recoil. Mmman is my 1911 a sweet shooter, especially with these Magtech 200gr lead swc I tried.

Will post as I get more and more trigger time with the Walther. I really want to improve with it.
 
I need to quit shooting my 1911 and Walther in the same session
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If you intend on keeping and shooting both,
I would suggest the opposite - shooting them both every time you go to the range.
One magazine worth each, switching back and forth until your monkey brain gets it.
And it will.
 
I've practiced with a Walther PPQ M2 in 9mm and I loved that trigger and the sights were excellent. I was able to shoot this every bit as well as I can shoot my Gen3 Glock 17, so I can tell you that the accuracy was in the gun.

I know a lot of people who can shoot a .40 S&W with the same accuracy and precision that they can shoot the same gun in 9mm, but I'm not one of these people. If additional rangetime with the .40S&W doesn't yield the results you want I suggest that you rent or borrow a 9mm PPQ M2, and see if you can't do better with the 9mm.
 
Totally different firearms can be very frustrating. Before you perform any more self / firearm assessment, I would do one of two things or preferably both:

Static fire with whatever you can muster; sandbags, rest, etc and know how to do it, for example, not resting on arms, hands, etc.

Find someone very familiar with the firearm and ask them to give it a whirl.

You'll likely discover it's your unfamiliarity with it and will probably need to fire at least a couple of thousand rounds to begin your comfort/confidence level.
 
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