Accuracy/ .38spl vs. .357
- Thread starter rgillis
- Start date
shoots awe lots
New member
Try 158gr in 38 see if this helps.
Most .38/.357 revolvers have their sights regulated at the factory for 158gr ammo. This has been the "standard" weight projectile for this caliber for decades. It's likely that you'll find this to be the most accurate projectile in your firearm.
At closer ranges one round rises more than the other as it leaves the muzzle and each has a different ballistic arc. Assuming your gun is zeroed in at 25 yards with each cartridge, a .357 may be 0.8" low at 50 yards and .38 Special RNL 2" low at 50. A gun sighted for the .357 may show the .38 special high or low at a given range, depending on distance.
Keep in mind that each gun tends to shoot better with a certain combination of projectile, velocity, etc. My 2.5" Model 66 really likes the Winchester 158gr JHP .357 load and they go where the sights point. But fire a Remington 158gr .357 and they will fire low and right. But a friend's 6" Model 28 is more accurate with Remington over Winchester. Differences are small (about 1/2" at 25 yards). To complicate further, another friend's 4" Model 13 consumes Speer 158gr as it's most accurate round.
Because your Model 19 has adjustable sights, you can determine for yourself which cartridge you want to fire the most and adjust your sights accordingly. For accurate Magnums, I'd suggest testing out the following for personal defense:
Winchester:
145gr Silvertip X357SHP
125gr Super-X JHP X3576P
Federal:
158gr Hydra-Shok P357HS1
130gr Hydra-Shok PD357HS2H
Remington:
158gr Remington Express - Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point R357M2
125gr Golden Saber Jacketed hollow point GS357MA
Speer:
Gold Dot SB 135 gr GDHP 23917 (designed for short barrels)
Gold Dot 125gr GDHP 23920
Gold Dot 158gr GDHP 23960
You can also use the .38 special version of most of the above loads if desired. Check each manufacturer's website for details.
At closer ranges one round rises more than the other as it leaves the muzzle and each has a different ballistic arc. Assuming your gun is zeroed in at 25 yards with each cartridge, a .357 may be 0.8" low at 50 yards and .38 Special RNL 2" low at 50. A gun sighted for the .357 may show the .38 special high or low at a given range, depending on distance.
Keep in mind that each gun tends to shoot better with a certain combination of projectile, velocity, etc. My 2.5" Model 66 really likes the Winchester 158gr JHP .357 load and they go where the sights point. But fire a Remington 158gr .357 and they will fire low and right. But a friend's 6" Model 28 is more accurate with Remington over Winchester. Differences are small (about 1/2" at 25 yards). To complicate further, another friend's 4" Model 13 consumes Speer 158gr as it's most accurate round.
Because your Model 19 has adjustable sights, you can determine for yourself which cartridge you want to fire the most and adjust your sights accordingly. For accurate Magnums, I'd suggest testing out the following for personal defense:
Winchester:
145gr Silvertip X357SHP
125gr Super-X JHP X3576P
Federal:
158gr Hydra-Shok P357HS1
130gr Hydra-Shok PD357HS2H
Remington:
158gr Remington Express - Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point R357M2
125gr Golden Saber Jacketed hollow point GS357MA
Speer:
Gold Dot SB 135 gr GDHP 23917 (designed for short barrels)
Gold Dot 125gr GDHP 23920
Gold Dot 158gr GDHP 23960
You can also use the .38 special version of most of the above loads if desired. Check each manufacturer's website for details.
Coupla things...
The .38 bullet has a longer trip to the rifling which may mean that it skids a bit more and perhaps deforms a bit more when it finally engages the rifling.
I also remember someone telling me a long time ago that the twist in a .357 barrel is a bit different than a typical .38 barrel which could have some effect on accuracy.
And, it could be that the .38 load you're using just isn't a very accurate load.
The .38 bullet has a longer trip to the rifling which may mean that it skids a bit more and perhaps deforms a bit more when it finally engages the rifling.
I also remember someone telling me a long time ago that the twist in a .357 barrel is a bit different than a typical .38 barrel which could have some effect on accuracy.
And, it could be that the .38 load you're using just isn't a very accurate load.
158gn is better...
I shoot 158gn 38spl swc's out of my taurus 605 357 snub, and they are very accurate. When I shoot plus p hollow points that are anywhere from 110gn to 125gn, I miss the target completely with 2 out of 5. When I use 130gn 38spl fmj, it's also very accurate. When shooting 357 110gn hollowpoints or 125gn soft points, it is also accurate, but brutal. Who knows why but you have to experiment.
I shoot 158gn 38spl swc's out of my taurus 605 357 snub, and they are very accurate. When I shoot plus p hollow points that are anywhere from 110gn to 125gn, I miss the target completely with 2 out of 5. When I use 130gn 38spl fmj, it's also very accurate. When shooting 357 110gn hollowpoints or 125gn soft points, it is also accurate, but brutal. Who knows why but you have to experiment.
Sturm
That makes a lot of sense. My usual target rounds are wwb 38spl 130gnfmj.
They are the most accurate rounds in this gun. They are also just about the same overall length as the .357 rounds! I think you are on to something. I wonder if all that skidding in the chamber also contributes to the recoil. Maybe instead of the bullet entering the forcing cone, it's slamming into it, and then going thru. Could also explain the hollowpoint inaccuracy as well. Maybe when they get "slammed" they deform more than a solid point. I'm going to explore ammo the more closely mimics the length of the 357. Thanks for the input.
That makes a lot of sense. My usual target rounds are wwb 38spl 130gnfmj.
They are the most accurate rounds in this gun. They are also just about the same overall length as the .357 rounds! I think you are on to something. I wonder if all that skidding in the chamber also contributes to the recoil. Maybe instead of the bullet entering the forcing cone, it's slamming into it, and then going thru. Could also explain the hollowpoint inaccuracy as well. Maybe when they get "slammed" they deform more than a solid point. I'm going to explore ammo the more closely mimics the length of the 357. Thanks for the input.
Robert Allison
New member
My thinking is along the lines of JohnKSa, that your accuracy or inaccuracy with those particular loads may well be related to bullet-jump. It's possible that some other brand or load of 38 Spec. would work fine in your gun as others have mentioned, but I have a concern/problem with shooting a lot of 38s in my 357s.
It seems that most people consider a 357 to simply be a 38 with more options. Such is not the case IMHO. Not only can accuracy problems arise, firing lots of 38 in a 357 can, over time, score the inside of the chambers to the point that extracting 357 brass can become problematic. You will also notice, especially if you're shooting lots of cheap 38 factory ammo which invariably is loaded with lead bullets, that leading and crud will build up and form a small ring just ahead of the case-mouth in the chambers, and it can be difficult to remove.
If you handload and want to shoot mild loads in your 357, you're all set. Just load 38 loads in 357 brass, add approx .5 grains of powder (give or take, depending on the powder.....less for fast burning, a little more for slower stuff although you'll probably not use slow burning powder in light loads, or shouldn't) to compensate for the higher case volume to 'equalize' the load, and voila. If you want a 38, buy a 38.
It seems that most people consider a 357 to simply be a 38 with more options. Such is not the case IMHO. Not only can accuracy problems arise, firing lots of 38 in a 357 can, over time, score the inside of the chambers to the point that extracting 357 brass can become problematic. You will also notice, especially if you're shooting lots of cheap 38 factory ammo which invariably is loaded with lead bullets, that leading and crud will build up and form a small ring just ahead of the case-mouth in the chambers, and it can be difficult to remove.
If you handload and want to shoot mild loads in your 357, you're all set. Just load 38 loads in 357 brass, add approx .5 grains of powder (give or take, depending on the powder.....less for fast burning, a little more for slower stuff although you'll probably not use slow burning powder in light loads, or shouldn't) to compensate for the higher case volume to 'equalize' the load, and voila. If you want a 38, buy a 38.
RA, we were actually agreeing. My typing fingers were lazy so I just said freebore which was meant to be the same, just borrowed from rifle terminology! So, looks like we're all in agreement on this one.
A little off topic, but I also load short .357 magnums and it resulted from sticky extraction in 7 shot .357's and light compacts and even some K-Frames with short ejector rods. This is an excellent solution but as we all know, technically it doesn't exist. Another reason I got into it was because at first I tried to duplicate the COR-BON 115 gr. +P+ .38 Special load that uses the Sierra 115 gr. 9mm JHP and couldn't get acceptable tension on the bullet using .38 S brass. Trimmed .357 magnum cases to .38 S length and the wall thickness is great enough to hold 9mm bullets firmly and they shoot surprisingly well. Another factor was the fact that I order 9mm JHP bullets in bulk, usually Rem. 124 gr. JHP's. BTW, you can borrow the taper crimp die if you have a set in 9mm to accomplish a Taper crimp when using a 9mm bullet.
Jkwas, is that the S&B 130 gr. FMJ? I have shot them also in .357's and they were great. More accurate than other .38 S loads I have tried in the .357. Mainly though I do shoot JHP's and Hard cast lead in full length cases and .357 and 9mm JHP's in the trimmed .357 mag cases for 7 shooters and snubbies, mainly other peoples. To me the ideal length of a short barreled .357 is 3" and you get a full length ejector rod in the bargain, except of course the 2.25" Ruger SP-101 has full length extraction.
A little off topic, but I also load short .357 magnums and it resulted from sticky extraction in 7 shot .357's and light compacts and even some K-Frames with short ejector rods. This is an excellent solution but as we all know, technically it doesn't exist. Another reason I got into it was because at first I tried to duplicate the COR-BON 115 gr. +P+ .38 Special load that uses the Sierra 115 gr. 9mm JHP and couldn't get acceptable tension on the bullet using .38 S brass. Trimmed .357 magnum cases to .38 S length and the wall thickness is great enough to hold 9mm bullets firmly and they shoot surprisingly well. Another factor was the fact that I order 9mm JHP bullets in bulk, usually Rem. 124 gr. JHP's. BTW, you can borrow the taper crimp die if you have a set in 9mm to accomplish a Taper crimp when using a 9mm bullet.
Jkwas, is that the S&B 130 gr. FMJ? I have shot them also in .357's and they were great. More accurate than other .38 S loads I have tried in the .357. Mainly though I do shoot JHP's and Hard cast lead in full length cases and .357 and 9mm JHP's in the trimmed .357 mag cases for 7 shooters and snubbies, mainly other peoples. To me the ideal length of a short barreled .357 is 3" and you get a full length ejector rod in the bargain, except of course the 2.25" Ruger SP-101 has full length extraction.