I wasn't paying attention and I accidentally primed like 7-8 cases of .223 that have crimped or berdant primer pockets without cutting it out first. It was difficult to get the primer in them, but it did go without distorting the primer, as far as I can tell. Are these safe to load and shoot or should I just cut my losses and deprime? What is the cheapest effective way to cut out the primer pockets?
Accidentally primed lake city brass
- Thread starter jojo4711
- Start date
FrankenMauser
New member
If they're Berdan pockets, then you should toss the cases.
If they're Boxer pockets, just load and shoot. Mark the cases so that you'll be sure to remove the crimp next time.
If they're Boxer pockets, just load and shoot. Mark the cases so that you'll be sure to remove the crimp next time.
oldandslow
New member
jj,
If they're Lake City brass then they should be boxer primed. Also to decap Berdan primers you would have had to use a different method than the decapping pin usually used for boxer primed cases.
So it sounds like you primed some Lake City brass that had the primer pocket crimped and you didn't ream or swage out the primer pocket before priming.
As long as the primers are seated below the face of the case you may have gotten lucky with priming the non-reamed/swaged cases and they will probably work fine. You have several options- toss the primed cases, deprime the cases and correctly prep the primer swage, fire the primed cases in your rifle with no powder or bullet to see if they fire or load them up as test rounds and record your results for future reference. Since I like to experiment I would probably pick the last option but it's your choice.
good luck- oldandslow
If they're Lake City brass then they should be boxer primed. Also to decap Berdan primers you would have had to use a different method than the decapping pin usually used for boxer primed cases.
So it sounds like you primed some Lake City brass that had the primer pocket crimped and you didn't ream or swage out the primer pocket before priming.
As long as the primers are seated below the face of the case you may have gotten lucky with priming the non-reamed/swaged cases and they will probably work fine. You have several options- toss the primed cases, deprime the cases and correctly prep the primer swage, fire the primed cases in your rifle with no powder or bullet to see if they fire or load them up as test rounds and record your results for future reference. Since I like to experiment I would probably pick the last option but it's your choice.
good luck- oldandslow
I think I did come across a berdan primer case because it bent/broke my decapping pin which ended my night of reloading. What's the best way to handle these cases in the future? I'll get some pics later today and y'all can tell me exactly what I'm looking at. I have been reloading pistol for a while, but .223 is all new to me.
oldandslow
New member
jj,
If you look down the mouth of an empty case and see two flash holes side-by-side it's a Berdan primed case. If you see one flash hole in the center then it is a boxer primed case.
I've run across a few .223/556 cases where the single boxer flash hole is too narrow for the decapping pin and the pin breaks. For me these were on cases with the headstamp "1k". Rarely the boxer primed cases with a really tight primer pocket crimp can make decapping difficult. Always good to keep a few spare decapping pins around.
best wishes- oldandslow
If you look down the mouth of an empty case and see two flash holes side-by-side it's a Berdan primed case. If you see one flash hole in the center then it is a boxer primed case.
I've run across a few .223/556 cases where the single boxer flash hole is too narrow for the decapping pin and the pin breaks. For me these were on cases with the headstamp "1k". Rarely the boxer primed cases with a really tight primer pocket crimp can make decapping difficult. Always good to keep a few spare decapping pins around.
best wishes- oldandslow
- Look inside case w/ flashlight and ensure they have single flash hole*
- If so, go ahead and shoot them.
*
post: I've never seen LC brass with anything else but single/"boxer" flash hole...
but check anyway
**
Next time you are resizing cases and have the ram up/case all the way in the die,
loosen/then retighten the depriming stem and it will self align to the hole.
- If so, go ahead and shoot them.
*
post: I've never seen LC brass with anything else but single/"boxer" flash hole...
but check anyway
**
Next time you are resizing cases and have the ram up/case all the way in the die,
loosen/then retighten the depriming stem and it will self align to the hole.
jojo4711 said:
I too am confused by what you're explaining. LC brass will be boxer primed. Was this brass previously already decapped and re-sized ? I'm surprised you were able to prime this brass as LC brass is crimped and you almost always need to chamfer out the old crimp. As far as reloading I would not worry about repriming. The 5.56 sammi spec is accomidates a higher pressure than .223. I load 5.56 gas gun using standard CCI #400 primers. I've loaded these primers all the way up to 3000 fps with no issues. If you will be loading beyond this velocity for gas gun, then I suggest err on the side of safe and use the CCI #41 5.56 primers.
I would de-prime them and start over . I did the same thing on some 308 brass and the results were not good . The amount of effort it took to prime the cases was so great that I must have damaged the inside of the primer . The primers were flattened a little and that must have crushed or misaligned something inside . I got very poor ignition , lower muzzle velocity , and was told you could see the unspent powder leave the barrel . Why bother trying to save a few cents . It should take very little time & effort to fix the problem . 
m&p45acp10+1
New member
All modern LC cases are boxer primed. The primers are crimped, or staked in to keep them from backing out if fired out an open bolt machine gun. Removing the crimps is a simple process. Though with hundreds of cases to do at a time it can seem like a huge chore.
If you are doing .223 Rem I would advise to order a few extra decapping pins. They bend, and/or break. If you have a spare it is a quick process to correct. The Lee dies have the feature that they will pop up instead of breaking in most cases. I will tell you now. They do break. I have broken 2 in the past 3 years. That is with doing tens of thousands of cases. (I mean that in the literal sense.) I think they charged me $12 or so shipped for 3 spare pins.
If it were me I would pop the primers out, and dispose of them, and remove the crimp, then prime the brass again. I have had a few that were super tight fits. Most ended up needing a second strike to fire, as the primer was so tight it took the firing pin hitting to seat it the rest of the way. The second strike fired most of them. Though there were a good bit of them that I had to get the bullet puller out when I got home as they never went off.
A primer is cheaper than the brass, bullet, powder, and primer.
If you are doing .223 Rem I would advise to order a few extra decapping pins. They bend, and/or break. If you have a spare it is a quick process to correct. The Lee dies have the feature that they will pop up instead of breaking in most cases. I will tell you now. They do break. I have broken 2 in the past 3 years. That is with doing tens of thousands of cases. (I mean that in the literal sense.) I think they charged me $12 or so shipped for 3 spare pins.
If it were me I would pop the primers out, and dispose of them, and remove the crimp, then prime the brass again. I have had a few that were super tight fits. Most ended up needing a second strike to fire, as the primer was so tight it took the firing pin hitting to seat it the rest of the way. The second strike fired most of them. Though there were a good bit of them that I had to get the bullet puller out when I got home as they never went off.
A primer is cheaper than the brass, bullet, powder, and primer.
This RCBS swager gets it done very quickly for both large and small primer pockets
http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Primer-Pocket-Swager-Combo-2/dp/B0063IDAX2
Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJVy4NnfRE
(Start at about 0:50)
http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Primer-Pocket-Swager-Combo-2/dp/B0063IDAX2
Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJVy4NnfRE
(Start at about 0:50)
Jojo,
It depends. 7.62 and .30-06 brass from Lake City have crimps that will damage a primer, as MetalGod described. However, on .223 the crimps seem to be less robust, and I have, like you, accidentally primed some I thought had gone through my swager, but hadn't. The fact is, they primed easily enough that I didn't even notice until about the fifth one, for which the extra effort was a little more noticeable. It seems the thinner crimp had largely been ironed out when I pushed the original spent primer out, and that just doesn't happen much with larger crimped primer pockets. So if they went in with reasonable effort, and the primer cups don't look flattened and are below flush with the case head (for an AR) they probably will shoot fine.
One thing to watch with Lake City is that the primer pockets are drill and the drill sometimes walk a little off center. They're not as bad as Fiocci cases, but I've had a few over time that were off center enough to break a decapping pin.
It depends. 7.62 and .30-06 brass from Lake City have crimps that will damage a primer, as MetalGod described. However, on .223 the crimps seem to be less robust, and I have, like you, accidentally primed some I thought had gone through my swager, but hadn't. The fact is, they primed easily enough that I didn't even notice until about the fifth one, for which the extra effort was a little more noticeable. It seems the thinner crimp had largely been ironed out when I pushed the original spent primer out, and that just doesn't happen much with larger crimped primer pockets. So if they went in with reasonable effort, and the primer cups don't look flattened and are below flush with the case head (for an AR) they probably will shoot fine.
One thing to watch with Lake City is that the primer pockets are drill and the drill sometimes walk a little off center. They're not as bad as Fiocci cases, but I've had a few over time that were off center enough to break a decapping pin.
.223 that has crimped pockets but took a new primer doesn't really matter. Something's not right but it's not terminal either. Just finish loading 'em.
Berdan cases you make some drawer pulls out of and throw the rest away. A regular small rifle boxer primer shouldn't fit into a Berdan pocket, too big or too small, and there's the anvil that's part of the case. No such thing as large and small Berdan primers anyway. They go by the diameter.
Berdan cases you make some drawer pulls out of and throw the rest away. A regular small rifle boxer primer shouldn't fit into a Berdan pocket, too big or too small, and there's the anvil that's part of the case. No such thing as large and small Berdan primers anyway. They go by the diameter.
I guess I am going to argue with the majority, but either throw out that brass or deprime, swage, and re-prime.
Your crimp narrows the opening. the narrowed opening swages the primer cup to a narrower size. when that cup is squeezed down, it leaves the cup loose as it goes into the body of the primer pocket.
You are almost certain to have at least a small amount of gas leakage around those loose primers, and some may even pop the primers out during cycling.
I suggest that you look at the RCBS pocket swager. It's a simple in and out action just like running any other die. It works well, and running a thousand rounds of brass through the die is a piddling little chore. Using any of the chamfering or reaming tools removes structure and metal from the pocket, swaging it changes nothing.
Your crimp narrows the opening. the narrowed opening swages the primer cup to a narrower size. when that cup is squeezed down, it leaves the cup loose as it goes into the body of the primer pocket.
You are almost certain to have at least a small amount of gas leakage around those loose primers, and some may even pop the primers out during cycling.
I suggest that you look at the RCBS pocket swager. It's a simple in and out action just like running any other die. It works well, and running a thousand rounds of brass through the die is a piddling little chore. Using any of the chamfering or reaming tools removes structure and metal from the pocket, swaging it changes nothing.
I bought the rcbs swager combo die and have used it some now. Should I just run all my brass through the swager? It's an extra step that does take some time, but I don't want to have any issues. I already deprimed and swaged all the original brass from the beginning of this topic. Not taking any chances.
It won't hurt to run everything through it. The pin in the swager is smaller than the diameter of a primer, and what you will find as you run your brass through it is that almost all of the commercial and non crimped brass you won't feel a thing. the thing won't even touch the commercial brass, it is only designed to swage out the protruding ring or protrusions that push into the primer pocket. it is not meant to even contact the pocket itself.