Accidental discharge of pre-87 Hi-Powers

B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
Just a word to the wise, a good friend of mine suffered an accidental discharge the other day when the strap of his shoulder holster came off, dropping an Inglis Hi-Power in Condition Two (live round in chamber, hammer down).

The design of the Hi-Power (staggered magazine, most of weight in back) tends to lend itself to landings on the hammer if dropped. It is my understanding that pre-87 Hi-Powers lack an inertial firing pin safety and they can discharge in Condition Two.

If you aren't comfortable with cocked and locked carry (which is safer than Condition Two IMO), I strongly recommend either carrying in Condition Three (loaded magazine, empty chamber) or being 100% sure not to drop the gun.

The other lesson here is that it pays to use a well-made holster designed for your gun.
 
Very good point, Bartholomew.
If gun was designed for specific mode of carry,condition 1 in case of P35, it should be carried as such. One of the worst ways to carry sinfle action auto is in cond. 2
Your friend was not the first person to have neglegend discharge due to incorrect method if carry and he will not be the last.
Thanks God nobody was injured.
 
I do not claim to be a BHP 'expert'--but do have an Inglis HP, plus a couple of references.

In the 'Browning High Power Automatic Pistol, by R. Blake Stevens, Collector Grade Pub., 1966, the first English language manual written for the BHP in 1934 is reproduced at page 54. Among other things, it states that 'the weapon is perfectly safe to be carried with the hammer down on a loaded cartridge'.

The Inglis is also discussed at length, and the text of the first Canadian manual on the Inglis pistol, dated November 3rd, 1944 is reproduced on page 111. It states: 'A pistol may be carried with the hammer down on a live round, provided it is carefully lowered with muzzle pointed safely...'.

Also reproduced is a postwar British manual on the #2 Mk. 1 Inglis,at page 196. It observes that 'the pistol cannot be fired if the firing pin does not recieve a full blow from the hammer, because the firing pin is shorter than its housing and is held withdrawn from the firing hole by its spring'.

I do not know the exact date when the PC firing pin safety was introduced, but the Inglis certainly did not have it. Old BHPs have the same system that the 1911 Colts, which do not go off from dropping on the hammer. 1911s *can* be made to go off in that condition if they impact muzzle first on a hard surface from approximately four feet.

Feel free to take this over to the forum at www.fnhipower.com where there are some very knowledgeable people on duty.

FWIW.

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Hello. To my knowledge ALL HPs have inertial firing pins including the earlier ones without the internal firing pin safety. My oldest HP was made in '71 and it does as does my '76 HP. It is possible that some of the wartime WWII HPs made under Nazi occupation could possibly have pins a tad long, but other than that, I believe the HP's always come with an inertial system.

Best.
 
Robert, thanks for the information - but the Inglis (at least this particular model) is most definitely capable of firing with the hammer down on a live round.

The gun apparently landed squarely on it's lowered spur hammer and put a hole in both a table and ceiling. Certainly (as with any 50yr old gun) there is the possibility that an internal mechanical safety failed.

I would note that somebody here (perhaps it was you?) posted that the British manual of arms for the Inglis Hi-Power advises carrying the gun at half-cock with safety on - the idea being that the gun is secured from a discharge if dropped and also protected if the safety wipes off.

Remembering this makes me think that the Inglis discharging from being dropped is not a result of a single freak incident.

Stephen, I'll bow to your superior knowledge of Hi-Powers any day. The gun in question was an Inglis Mk.I (he has several so not sure which one - but may have been Chinese contract gun). However, the gun did land on its hammer and did fire as a result of this.

Anybody have any Inglis's they would like to loan out for experimentation? : )

[This message has been edited by Bartholomew Roberts (edited September 19, 2000).]
 
Just my $0.02 here - an earlier poster called this incident a "negligent discharge." If I understood the event properly, the operator's finger was not on the trigger at time of discharge and the weapon's discharge was the result of it being dropped. This makes it a classic "accidental discharge" not a negligent one.

I would agree with another poster who indicated that he feels that condition one is safer than condition two for SA semi-autos.
 
While my 1972 BHP was in the Browning service department for repair, the gunsmiths there went ahead and installed a new and heavier firing pin spring, although I had asked them to do so. This took place some years ago, but I'm fairly certain that Browning said the new spring was for greater safety. Apparently, replacement of the spring is or was a standard practice for older BHPs.

So, FWIW, if Browning's replacement of the firing pin spring in my BHP is any indication, it seems to me that the AD may have been due to a weak spring, which failed to prevent the forward movement of the firing pin when the pistol was dropped.



[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited September 19, 2000).]
 
At the risk of moving this discussion in
a slightly different direction...

I would appreciate comments from those of
you who own and shoot Inglis Hi-Powers.

Mine has sat idle for years. The few times I
fired it, it worked flawlessly with fmj.
Its trigger was so heavy though, that I
pretty much relegated it to curio status as
a shooter. Now I am taking a second look at
it as a possible IDPA gun. To that end, it
is currently at the gunsmith having the sights attended to.

My question is specifically about your thoughts on the Inglis as a decent "base"
for enough modifications to make it shootable. Since it was of war time construction, is it "less of a Hi-Power".
 
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