If we take the theory that accuracy is that of the rifle system you use and precision is the ability of the shooter to put those shots where they are supposed to go, what do you, as a hunter, consider acceptable precision? That is, at what distance (Energy to kill not being a factor) do you say..."I must be able to make a cold bore shot, from a field shooting position on a X inch target." ???
Some background. With my boys, I had them shoot Prone, Sitting, Kneeling and Offhand at killzone sized targets with their hunting rifles. They had to hit the target from each of those positions 5 times, no misses, to set their max range. So obviously, offhand was closer than prone, and in the field, they would have a pack, tree, rock for support, and they practiced those as well. It did not take long for them to reach the energy maximum of their hunting rifles. They knew their drops, holds, acceptable sight picture and had good fundamentals. They have since harvested Deer, Elk and Pronghorn and lots of small game.
So I start to work with a guy who thought he was a pretty good shot, but wanted to get better. He knew my reputation from other people and had gone and watched some of the TV shows I was on and decided to ask. First time out, he wanted to shoot on the 1000 yard range. I told him lets make sure the fundamentals are good at shorter distances first. He could not get consistent hits even at 500m. When a buddy came back from trying to get his AR sighted in, he told him "I am so pissed right now". Basically, in the conversation he said he had learned a lot in a few hours, be he was not as good as he thought he was. As he was struggling with holds, data management and wind, I was also tweaking his fundamentals, which were decent, but needed a few modifications. During the time, I had, at one point, pulled out my rifle, loaded a mag and got behind my rifle and got first round hits on the smallest target at 500m, then 700m in 6-10 mph winds. My reply to his surprise was, "That is what you need to be able to do, all the time, if you want to call yourself an accomplished rifleman. Hitting the target on the 2nd (or more) round is not that."
A few older guys (One was a Viet Nam Vet) were watching me work with him the 2nd time, waiting for a lull and then they were going to shoot their rifles. They chatted with us some and they had just watched me pull a rifle out of the Tahoe, walk up, load one round and get a 1st round 700m hit on a 10" target. They asked me if I could do that all the time. I answered that almost all the time, I could. If I missed, it was due to me missing the wind call. My protoge told them he had seen me do it several times. And then he says..."And not to brag, but I've shot 2 Elk at 750 yards. Well, I hit him on the third shot, the first went between his legs, then next just under and the third I got him." The old Vet just rolls his eyes and walks away. I said "That's why we are here." By my estimate, his 700 yard group size was in the range of about 2 feet at this point. But 300 WM with 200g ELDx has enough energy, if you can place it.
Next time, if he takes me up on it, I'm going to have him use a lighter recoiling trainer and really get the fundamentals locked down.
I do not think he is too far out of the norm. We have guns and ammo capable of cleanly taking game out pretty far, and even though I am a MUCH better rifleman than he, he shot Elk well past what I would even consider taking a shot at with his set up. When a guy can get 1 hit out of 3 or 4 at some distance on a target at the range, and then shoots at game at that distance, I call that unethical hunting.
So a few things, 1. What is your acceptable precision? 2. How do you verify that? 3. How much do you practice to keep those skills up? 4. How do we, as a community, reign back in the notion that long range hunting is easy so we don't have so much wounded and harassed big game?
Thoughts and experiences welcome to be discussed in all areas of this post.
Some background. With my boys, I had them shoot Prone, Sitting, Kneeling and Offhand at killzone sized targets with their hunting rifles. They had to hit the target from each of those positions 5 times, no misses, to set their max range. So obviously, offhand was closer than prone, and in the field, they would have a pack, tree, rock for support, and they practiced those as well. It did not take long for them to reach the energy maximum of their hunting rifles. They knew their drops, holds, acceptable sight picture and had good fundamentals. They have since harvested Deer, Elk and Pronghorn and lots of small game.
So I start to work with a guy who thought he was a pretty good shot, but wanted to get better. He knew my reputation from other people and had gone and watched some of the TV shows I was on and decided to ask. First time out, he wanted to shoot on the 1000 yard range. I told him lets make sure the fundamentals are good at shorter distances first. He could not get consistent hits even at 500m. When a buddy came back from trying to get his AR sighted in, he told him "I am so pissed right now". Basically, in the conversation he said he had learned a lot in a few hours, be he was not as good as he thought he was. As he was struggling with holds, data management and wind, I was also tweaking his fundamentals, which were decent, but needed a few modifications. During the time, I had, at one point, pulled out my rifle, loaded a mag and got behind my rifle and got first round hits on the smallest target at 500m, then 700m in 6-10 mph winds. My reply to his surprise was, "That is what you need to be able to do, all the time, if you want to call yourself an accomplished rifleman. Hitting the target on the 2nd (or more) round is not that."
A few older guys (One was a Viet Nam Vet) were watching me work with him the 2nd time, waiting for a lull and then they were going to shoot their rifles. They chatted with us some and they had just watched me pull a rifle out of the Tahoe, walk up, load one round and get a 1st round 700m hit on a 10" target. They asked me if I could do that all the time. I answered that almost all the time, I could. If I missed, it was due to me missing the wind call. My protoge told them he had seen me do it several times. And then he says..."And not to brag, but I've shot 2 Elk at 750 yards. Well, I hit him on the third shot, the first went between his legs, then next just under and the third I got him." The old Vet just rolls his eyes and walks away. I said "That's why we are here." By my estimate, his 700 yard group size was in the range of about 2 feet at this point. But 300 WM with 200g ELDx has enough energy, if you can place it.
Next time, if he takes me up on it, I'm going to have him use a lighter recoiling trainer and really get the fundamentals locked down.
I do not think he is too far out of the norm. We have guns and ammo capable of cleanly taking game out pretty far, and even though I am a MUCH better rifleman than he, he shot Elk well past what I would even consider taking a shot at with his set up. When a guy can get 1 hit out of 3 or 4 at some distance on a target at the range, and then shoots at game at that distance, I call that unethical hunting.
So a few things, 1. What is your acceptable precision? 2. How do you verify that? 3. How much do you practice to keep those skills up? 4. How do we, as a community, reign back in the notion that long range hunting is easy so we don't have so much wounded and harassed big game?
Thoughts and experiences welcome to be discussed in all areas of this post.