A World War 2 Question. Spoke with a vetren tonight.

4

45automan

New member
Hey guys I talked with a World War 2 vetren tonight.I heard some things people,let me tell you! Anyway he was telling my brother and i how he used to "dum-dum" his .45 bullets. How exactly does one "dum-dum" his bullets? Didn't the military use FMJ ammo? Did they also use LRN? Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,45automan
 
Hello. I've read or heard (forget which) that some filed a deep "X" in the nose of the 230 gr FMJ in hopes it would expand. I'm sure it did nothing to help expansion. Best.
 
"Dum Dum" comes from the name of a British Raj (colonial) arsenal near Calcutta India, they issued these "Xed" cut LEAD bullets because they want a little extra lethality (and during the Sepoy rebellion in 1857, they needed it)for their troops who were outnumbered about 1000 to 1 by the rebeling "native" troops. The "native" troops, a combination of Hindu,(vegetarian) and Moslem (no pork, please!), were p*ssed off because their cartridges were lubricated with animal fat, probably sheep, but maybe pork. they went on a rampage and slaughtered every "white" man woman and child they could find, it took some time for the Brits to put the whole thing down. When the Brits captured the rebels, the normal punishment was to strap them over the business end of a canon barrel and fire a ball or grapeshot through them. The Brits weren't quite as politically correct then.
Dum-Dum bullets were eventually outlawed by the "rules" of war treaties in the early 20th century, and being caught with them was a death sentence. Cutting a jacketed bullet will have little effect unless the jacket is very thin and a lot of soft lead is exposed.

[This message has been edited by TABING (edited August 23, 2000).]
 
I could easily be wrong, but I heard that the "X cut" in the crown of the FMJ bullet was as much to assist fragmentation (four piece projectile after entry rather than a single bullet) as to facilitate expansion.
 
It is basically true that dum dums are forbidden but there are exceptions. The "anti hijacking devices" (38 S&W revolvers) the Air Force issued to C130 aircrews were often loaded with a composite dum dum. Their use was restricted to inside the aricraft where FMJ loads may caused unwanted damage to aircraft systems.

Tom, C130 pilot 1987 to 1993

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TABING:
[B.....The Brits weren't quite as politically correct then. Dum-Dum bullets were eventually outlawed by the "rules" of war treaties in the early 20th century, and being caught with them was a death sentence.[/B][/quote]
 
In veitnam we used to cut a X on our 45 acp ammo then pack garlic in the grooves-it was supposed to cause blood poisoning if you only wounded them.
 
Garlic does not cause blood poisoning. It is used in many home remedies. Also, chefs would be dropping dead all over the world were this Urban Legend true, myself included.
 
OT but it is true that garlic actually has some mild antiseptic properties.

Strangest first post I ever made on a gun board.

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Walt Kelly
 
I actually have a .45 "dum-dum" that I picked up on Engineer Hill on Attu Island several years ago (the scene of a big battle).

Anyway, this hill is still covered with all kinds of military stuff, even live ordnance. In a little depression where the wall had collapsed was a handfull of .45 rounds, pretty corroded but you could see that somebody had cut the tips off so that they were in effect, soft-points.
I left most of them there, but took the best one.
I just ordered a digital camera which I should get in a week or so - if this thread is still active I'll try and take a picture and post it here.

By the way, I doubt that these rounds would actually expand at .45 velocities but if you're sitting in the mud on Attu in the midst of a battle you're liable to try anything for an edge.




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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Hi, guys,

Tabing has it right.

Many strange things have been done in wars. I don't necessarily doubt that GIs did something like that, but it would have been totally ineffective unless the jacket was cut through and a lot of lead exposed. Doing that would risk having the lead blow out of the jacket, leaving the jacket in the barrel.

In addition, "dum-dum" bullets found on a prisoner could result in summary execution.

The garlic story (AFAIK) was first told about the Mafia. It seemed to be just one of many myths they used to frighten anyone who might betray them or try to arrest them. Except to identify a Mafia killing, I can't imagine what good (or harm) garlic would do. I take most of those stories with a grain of salt, or maybe a piece of garlic.

Jim
 
I was in WWII in the SouthWest Pacific. The fellows I knew did not cut X's in the nose of cartridges because they didn't want to take a chance of a misfeed.
 
In Joseph Heller's "Catch 22" there was a character who would cut "dum-dum" x's in the nose of .45 ACP rounds to shoot mice.
 
Not a double tap this time. There was a long delay, so I started over. I think that speghetti sauce on the keyboard is slowing down the works.

[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited August 23, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B27:
OT but it is true that garlic actually has some mild antiseptic properties.

Strangest first post I ever made on a gun board.

[/quote]

Welcome to TFL B27.

I've heard that the VCs who were lucky enough to find a garlic dum-dum that went astray and was still intact were fond of using them in feline stir fry.

It was coincidental for the mafia however. Never lay your pistol down too close next to a plate of spicy pasta. If you eat like me, that stuff gets everywhere. ;)
 
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