A friend gave me around 500 rounds of .357 magnum reloads. He had them in ziploc bags and had them labeled with the bullet weight, type of powder and powder weight. He used 158 grain cast bullets and 4.5 grains of universal in some and 158 grain bullets and 4.5 grains of Trail Boss in others. I weighed several empty cases with primers in them and recorded the various weights. I then added in the bullet and powder weights to determine what the reloads should weigh. I then proceeded to weigh every reload. Most weighed from 246 to 249. A smaller percentage weighed 250-254 and a very few weighed 243-245. Knowing that there is variation in weight from bullet to bullet and from cases to case, if you knew for a fact that the powder and powder charge was 100 percent accurate, and the cartridge length was correct, would you assume these reloads were safe?
A way to determine if another's reloads are safe?
- Thread starter AL45
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jwrowland77
New member
Assuming is never a good thing.
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Lost Sheep
New member
Have you seen him loading? What do you think of his practices? Are they as good as your own?
Hard to turn down a gift from a friend, but how good a friend is he?
What I am asking with that question is, "If one of his reloads cost you your eyesight and you were 75% sure it was his mistake, would you sue him? If it cost you your ife, would your widow sue him? If it cost a bystander a minor body part (say, a finger) and the bystander sued you, and it was going to cost you your house, would you blame your frient?
Not that the answers to those questions, yes or no, are important. The thought process you go through to find the answer to the unanswerable will inform your decision.
Best wishes. Lost Sheep
Hard to turn down a gift from a friend, but how good a friend is he?
What I am asking with that question is, "If one of his reloads cost you your eyesight and you were 75% sure it was his mistake, would you sue him? If it cost you your ife, would your widow sue him? If it cost a bystander a minor body part (say, a finger) and the bystander sued you, and it was going to cost you your house, would you blame your frient?
Not that the answers to those questions, yes or no, are important. The thought process you go through to find the answer to the unanswerable will inform your decision.
Best wishes. Lost Sheep
Lost Sheep
New member
The question in your subject line is not the same as the question you ended with.
If presented with the quesion, "How to determine the safety of (uncertain) reloads?", I would do this:
Take a sampling of the reloads and pull those apart. Identify (if possible - Trail Boss is easily identified for instance) and weigh the powder and bullets.
If that checks out, next step:"
Tale another random sample, fire some from your strongest .357 Mag, You may want to hold your gun on the the far side of a barrier, shooting bench, plywood shield, etc. I read of some of the early testing of Freedom Arms' .454 Casull. They tied the gun to a tire and a string to the trigger, then lay down behind a stout barrier (I forget..railroad ties or a tree or something). Overkill? Maybe.
Measure the velocities and check the brass for pressure signs.
Take this as the opportunity to buy a chronograph if you don't have one already. (Talk about a silver lining!)
If no pressure signs and velocities are even and commensurate with what you would expect from the identifying slips in the baggies, you are probably OK with those reloads.
Enjoy your new chronograph.
Lost Sheep
If presented with the quesion, "How to determine the safety of (uncertain) reloads?", I would do this:
Take a sampling of the reloads and pull those apart. Identify (if possible - Trail Boss is easily identified for instance) and weigh the powder and bullets.
If that checks out, next step:"
Tale another random sample, fire some from your strongest .357 Mag, You may want to hold your gun on the the far side of a barrier, shooting bench, plywood shield, etc. I read of some of the early testing of Freedom Arms' .454 Casull. They tied the gun to a tire and a string to the trigger, then lay down behind a stout barrier (I forget..railroad ties or a tree or something). Overkill? Maybe.
Measure the velocities and check the brass for pressure signs.
Take this as the opportunity to buy a chronograph if you don't have one already. (Talk about a silver lining!)
If no pressure signs and velocities are even and commensurate with what you would expect from the identifying slips in the baggies, you are probably OK with those reloads.
Enjoy your new chronograph.
Lost Sheep
There are a few things I would like to point out here...
First off, many people freak out about reloads, and one group of folks that often freak out as much/more than anyone are reloaders. It will be up to you to judge which advice is overly emotional and seemingly "doomsday."
For certain, some truly horrendous results can come from bad, reckless, careless or dastardly handloading. Of this there should be no doubt, but I believe it should be approached with some detective work.
The easiest answer would be "By golly, I would never go near anyone's reloads, for goodness sakes!
" To that, I say WHATEVER. If that is the kind of world that one must live in, staying out of cars and off public roads, away from swimming pools and five gallon buckets and for certain, avoid hospitals and doctors/surgeons at all costs. If pure safety is the goal, those are far more dangerous activities than shooting someone's handloads.
Do the detective work. What does the brass look like? Do you have a dial caliper, can you measure the length of the loaded cartridges? Does every single one of them look exactly like the last one and the next one? Is your friend the type to pay close attention to details? Can you chamber each and every round without any resistance and do they all easily fall back out of the chambers without help?
You could spend $15 and buy a kinetic bullet puller and break down some of these rounds and measure what is in them yourself.
Why has he given them to you? Most handloaders don't give away .357 brass, that stuff is not something we find everywhere. Or did he give you the ammo with the expectation that you would return the brass?
Those are very light loads by any measure. In a .357 Magnum revolver, they barely eclipse .38 Special, and .357 Magnum runs a full TWICE the pressure of .38 Special.
First off, many people freak out about reloads, and one group of folks that often freak out as much/more than anyone are reloaders. It will be up to you to judge which advice is overly emotional and seemingly "doomsday."
For certain, some truly horrendous results can come from bad, reckless, careless or dastardly handloading. Of this there should be no doubt, but I believe it should be approached with some detective work.
The easiest answer would be "By golly, I would never go near anyone's reloads, for goodness sakes!
" To that, I say WHATEVER. If that is the kind of world that one must live in, staying out of cars and off public roads, away from swimming pools and five gallon buckets and for certain, avoid hospitals and doctors/surgeons at all costs. If pure safety is the goal, those are far more dangerous activities than shooting someone's handloads.Do the detective work. What does the brass look like? Do you have a dial caliper, can you measure the length of the loaded cartridges? Does every single one of them look exactly like the last one and the next one? Is your friend the type to pay close attention to details? Can you chamber each and every round without any resistance and do they all easily fall back out of the chambers without help?
You could spend $15 and buy a kinetic bullet puller and break down some of these rounds and measure what is in them yourself.
Why has he given them to you? Most handloaders don't give away .357 brass, that stuff is not something we find everywhere. Or did he give you the ammo with the expectation that you would return the brass?
If I knew the person that assembled them (and he passes the sniff test) and the weights you reported were my data set, then I would confidently say "YES", I would reasonably assume those loads were safe.
Those are very light loads by any measure. In a .357 Magnum revolver, they barely eclipse .38 Special, and .357 Magnum runs a full TWICE the pressure of .38 Special.
Lost Sheep
New member
Sevens is right, as usual
Sevens has had my respect for some time and knows whereof he speaks.
I, when confronted with unknowns, exercise "an abundance of caution". Sometimes more than enough.
But it IS a good reason to get a chronograph added to the family budget.
Lost sheep
Sevens has had my respect for some time and knows whereof he speaks.
I, when confronted with unknowns, exercise "an abundance of caution". Sometimes more than enough.
But it IS a good reason to get a chronograph added to the family budget.
Lost sheep
Back a few years ago in the height of the ammo panic I bought .40s&w reloads from a "friend of a friend" and out of 200 rounds had about 10 duds. They also felt a little "light" compared to factory loadings. I think I was taken. So no more reloads purchased. I went ahead and got into reloading myself. I have no problems swapping free reloads between good friends at my gun club for the sole purpose of shooting as I have solid trust in their capabilities, but as far as buying someone's reloads that is attempting to make money, i'm done with that scenario.
Double Naught Spy
New member
The smart bet is to not shoot somebody elses reloads.
Based on the information you have, you don't know if the reloads vary because of powder weight, case weight, or bullet weight differences, or some combination thereof.
No reason to freak out. Every reason to be cautious.
Based on the information you have, you don't know if the reloads vary because of powder weight, case weight, or bullet weight differences, or some combination thereof.
No reason to freak out. Every reason to be cautious.
I approach this situation with much trepidation and a lot of thought. A close friend who has had no kabooms and that I'm familiar with their methods? Mebbe/prolly. A casual acquaintance? Nope. I know how easy it is for me to make a mistake, and how easy it is to ruin a gun or some body parts, so I would be extremely cautious when/if shooting another's reloads. Thank God, I've never been in that situation, but I'd rather hurt a friend's feelings than hurt me or my gun...
JeepHammer
Moderator
After watching an idiot beat his .30-06 bolt open with a brass hammer a few years ago...
And continuing to fire the rounds even after I explained it was a REALLY bad idea,
I gave up and moved to a different range.
Those rounds were a 'Gift' from a reloading 'Friend'...
I don't know how it turned out for him, but since the primer was flattened and the head stamp was partly obscured from the overpressure,
I'm sure it scrapped the rifle in the long run.
---------
I think you have shown Due Diligence, try firing a few in a MODERN firearm, preferably a thick cylinder firearm,
And asses for signs of overpressure.
And continuing to fire the rounds even after I explained it was a REALLY bad idea,
I gave up and moved to a different range.
Those rounds were a 'Gift' from a reloading 'Friend'...
I don't know how it turned out for him, but since the primer was flattened and the head stamp was partly obscured from the overpressure,
I'm sure it scrapped the rifle in the long run.
---------
I think you have shown Due Diligence, try firing a few in a MODERN firearm, preferably a thick cylinder firearm,
And asses for signs of overpressure.
polyphemus
New member
You don't seem to be comfortably shooting those reloads and this is why you
ask the fellows for their opinion even though all anyone knows is your account of
things.Most everyone here's saying the same things,if they knew who and and they saw what then they'd decide.You can do likewise and if you don't want to take a chance then pull a bunch and reload them,can't beat knowing for sure.
ask the fellows for their opinion even though all anyone knows is your account of
things.Most everyone here's saying the same things,if they knew who and and they saw what then they'd decide.You can do likewise and if you don't want to take a chance then pull a bunch and reload them,can't beat knowing for sure.
buck460XVR
New member
Of course I would. But how do you determine that without sitting beside someone as they loaded the cartridges or by pulling every round and measuring? Case weights in handgun cartridges vary way to much to determine if there is not a over charge of low density fast burning powder. The TB loads are an exception if you know for positive it's TB, but again without being there to watch every step, how do you know? You either trust your friend or you don't.......
If properly loaded most variation should come from using differing brass cases. Are all the headstamps on your brass identical? If not you need to separate and analyze each differing group of cases.
Most of yours weighed 246 to 249 grains while some weighed 243 and others weighed 254. That's a lot of variability and if all the brass is from the same lot I would say that some could very well be missing powder (243 grains) while others might have the powder doubled up (254 grains).
Are the bullets home cast or store bought? If home cast bullets were used that could also cause variation in total weight of the round.
If it were me I would buy a good bullet puller and start by pulling the lightest and heaviest rounds apart to see what is going on with those.
Most of yours weighed 246 to 249 grains while some weighed 243 and others weighed 254. That's a lot of variability and if all the brass is from the same lot I would say that some could very well be missing powder (243 grains) while others might have the powder doubled up (254 grains).
Are the bullets home cast or store bought? If home cast bullets were used that could also cause variation in total weight of the round.
If it were me I would buy a good bullet puller and start by pulling the lightest and heaviest rounds apart to see what is going on with those.
georgiacatweazle
New member
technically there is no way to tell. he could have been drunk and knocked his powder scale off.
you could randomly take 20 of them, pull them and weigh the powder. if they are all consistent with the friends notes. then probably all ok. if you know the person well and he's a good reloader, then that test would be good i think.
otherwise i probably may not take reloads for anyone i didn't know well,
you could randomly take 20 of them, pull them and weigh the powder. if they are all consistent with the friends notes. then probably all ok. if you know the person well and he's a good reloader, then that test would be good i think.
otherwise i probably may not take reloads for anyone i didn't know well,
If you look at the Hodgdon reloading site...
the load your buddy said he used with Universal ...is above the min ...but on the lower range / no where near the max.....so I would tend to trust them ( assuming I trusted his work).
The loads with Trail Boss worry me a little - because with a cast bullet, he's loading them over the published max in the tables...( and I have a hard time trusting someone that would load over a published max)...
So I'm a little torn on advice...pull a few and test weigh the powder.../ see what you find ---and then it comes down to whether you trust him or not.
the load your buddy said he used with Universal ...is above the min ...but on the lower range / no where near the max.....so I would tend to trust them ( assuming I trusted his work).
The loads with Trail Boss worry me a little - because with a cast bullet, he's loading them over the published max in the tables...( and I have a hard time trusting someone that would load over a published max)...
So I'm a little torn on advice...pull a few and test weigh the powder.../ see what you find ---and then it comes down to whether you trust him or not.
nemesiss45
New member
I used to shoot anything until i had an m1 garand spontaneously disassemble on me... now i just pull down any suspect or unknown ammo for the components.... i would still shoot reloads if i knew the persons practices... like my dad or a few friends